Most ignored combat aircraft of ww2

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

swampyankee said:
One question I have is how does one differentiate between "most ignored" and "most underrated?"

The second question is how did you decide on the SBD, which is pretty much universally credited with destroying the IJN's carriers at Midway?

For US aircraft, I would vote for the Catalina, especially the "Black Cat"squadrons. For the Germans, probably the Hs123. For the Commonwealth, most likely the Albacore. The Soviet air forces, in general, have been ignored in the Western popular press.

As an aside, my definition of popular press is likely different from yours, in that my definition would include just about all non-academic publications.

Yes i know its a subtle distinction but my thinking was an underrated aircraft would be one that gets attention but not as positive as it should be given its impact. An ignored aircraft would be one that had at least a fairly substantial impact but gets almost no attention at all. I picked the SBD because I think the average guy on the street that may have a passing interest in ww2 aviation is barley awear of its existence and even in what I would call the more educated community it doesn't seem to get talked about to much inspite of its monumental accomplishments. ( just my impression). To be honest I suppose as for the other reason I picked it I must confess some personal bias as my Grandfather worked at Douglas and had a bit to do with its design and manufacture.

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

swampyankee said:
One question I have is how does one differentiate between "most ignored" and "most underrated?"

The second question is how did you decide on the SBD, which is pretty much universally credited with destroying the IJN's carriers at Midway?

For US aircraft, I would vote for the Catalina, especially the "Black Cat"squadrons. For the Germans, probably the Hs123. For the Commonwealth, most likely the Albacore. The Soviet air forces, in general, have been ignored in the Western popular press.

As an aside, my definition of popular press is likely different from yours, in that my definition would include just about all non-academic publications.

Good point about the Soviet aircraft by the way.

GrauGeist · Jul 14, 2018

swampyankee said:
...The Soviet air forces, in general, have been ignored in the Western popular press...

Not sure how this can be concluded, if anything, the "western press" dwells too much on the IL-2, MIG-3 and YaK-9 while leaving out crucial contributors like the LaGG-3, which developed into the La-5 and ultimately, the La-7.

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

GrauGeist said:
Not sure how this can be concluded, if anything, the "western press" dwells too much on the IL-2, MIG-3 and YaK-9 while leaving out crucial contributors like the LaGG-3, which developed into the La-5 and ultimately, the La-7.

I must confess maybe I'm not reading the right history books. I have several like " Dual for the sky" that don't mention Soviet aircraft or the eastern front at all. It's easy to get the impression of the ignoring of Soviet aircraft and maybe other types as well from books like these.

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

With my Dual for the sky reference I can just see everyone face palming. Ya, even I know thats not one of the better books. It was just to give an example of how one could get the impression of the ignoring of Soviet types.

GrauGeist · Jul 14, 2018

michael rauls said:
I must confess maybe I'm not reading the right history books. I have several like " Dual for the sky" that don't mention Soviet aircraft or the eastern front at all. It's easy to get the impression of the ignoring of Soviet aircraft and maybe other types as well from books like these.

It all depends on the scope of the book the author is writing. Soviet aircraft aren't going to be mentioned in books that cover events in Western Europe or the MTO. Interestingly enough, many books about the Battle of Britain don't give much depth to the Italian air units involved, either.
However, read books about the Battle of Kursk, Battle of Berlin, Invasion of Poland, the Winter War and so on, and yes, there will be Soviet aircraft.

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

GrauGeist said:
It all depends on the scope of the book the author is writing. Soviet aircraft aren't going to be mentioned in books that cover events in Western Europe or the MTO. Interestingly enough, many books about the Battle of Britain don't give much depth to the Italian air units involved, either.
However, read books about the Battle of Kursk, Battle of Berlin, Invasion of Poland, the Winter War and so on, and yes, there will be Soviet aircraft.

There were Italian units involved in the Battle of Britain? Excuse me while I grab that more stable chair.

Shortround6 · Jul 14, 2018

michael rauls said:
With my Dual for the sky reference I can just see everyone face palming. Ya, even I know thats not one of the better books. It was just to give an example of how one could get the impression of the ignoring of Soviet types.

One also has to take into account the author, If he is giving you his opinion of aircraft he flew or had some sort of experience with and he had no experience with russian aircraft then he is not going to able to make much in the way of meaningful comments.

Eric Brown making a comment on the 109 vs the LA-5 won't be worth much as he never flew the LA-5 and had either very limited or no time in the 109.

I rather like Eric Brown's books but I take them for what they are, reminiscences of what it was like to fly those planes in a non-combat environment (except the Martlet/Wildcat and few others) and not the last word on the abilities of some of those planes in combat. He may (or may not)point out some things that had more to do with operational losses (crashes) that combat results.

Some people try to read too much into some of what he wrote.

GrauGeist · Jul 14, 2018

michael rauls said:
There were Italian units involved in the Battle of Britain? Excuse me while I grab that more stable chair.

Yes, they participated during the last months of 1940.

The unit formed by the Regia Aeronautica for the battle, was the Corpo Aero Italiano.

Their types that participated were:
Fiat CR.42
Fiat G.50
Fiat BR.20
CANT Z.1007
Caproni Ca.133

And they operated from bases in Belgium.

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

GrauGeist said:
Yes, they participated during the last months of 1940.

The unit formed by the Regia Aeronautica for the battle, was the Corpo Aero Italiano.

Their types that participated were:
Fiat CR.42
Fiat G.50
Fiat BR.20
CANT Z.1007
Caproni Ca.133

And they operated from bases in Belgium.

Wow, theres something that has generally glossed over to say the least.

glennasher · Jul 14, 2018

eagledad said:
I nominate the Martin Baltimore and Maryland as the most ignored WW2 Aircraft

Eagledad

I was thinking about those two myself. I know they were used in North Africa, but beyond that, I know little about their use elsewhere.

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

Shortround6 said:
One also has to take into account the author, If he is giving you his opinion of aircraft he flew or had some sort of experience with and he had no experience with russian aircraft then he is not going to able to make much in the way of meaningful comments.

Eric Brown making a comment on the 109 vs the LA-5 won't be worth much as he never flew the LA-5 and had either very limited or no time in the 109.

I rather like Eric Brown's books but I take them for what they are, reminiscences of what it was like to fly those planes in a non-combat environment (except the Martlet/Wildcat and few others) and not the last word on the abilities of some of those planes in combat. He may (or may not)point out some things that had more to do with operational losses (crashes) that combat results.

Some people try to read too much into some of what he wrote.

Good point about not trying to read to much into that kind of book. I was trying to give an example why some, including myself, have gotten the impression that Soviet aircraft have bean ignored. At least to a large degree. And yes it does make a verry good read. Was my first history book. My grandfather gave it to me and was patient enough to read it to me aloud, at my request, over and over and over again when I was to young to read any word with more than 3 or 4 letters.

eagledad · Jul 14, 2018

Glennasher

I believe the Baltimore was used in Africa and Italy for a period of time as well. Combat Aircraft of World War Two indicates it was in service until VE day, used exclusively in the Med, and finished the war attacking the Axis in Yugoslavia.

Great Minds think alike!

Eagledad

fastmongrel · Jul 14, 2018

Vickers Wellington. The only bomber in service in September 1939 and in August 1945 but it barely gets a mention in popular histories.

swampyankee · Jul 14, 2018

Just letting my mild OCD out for a moment: it's Duel for the Sky, not Dual for the Sky.

GrauGeist · Jul 14, 2018

Another type that gets very little discussion, is the Short Stirling heavy bomber

fastmongrel said:
Vickers Wellington. The only bomber in service in September 1939 and in August 1945 but it barely gets a mention in popular histories.

The Short Stirling barely gets a mention, either.

Greyman · Jul 14, 2018

michael rauls said:
There were Italian units involved in the Battle of Britain? Excuse me while I grab that more stable chair.

A good read here: Håkans Flygsida - The Falco and Regia Aeronautica in the Battle of Britain

michael rauls · Jul 14, 2018

Greyman said:
A good read here: Håkans Flygsida - The Falco and Regia Aeronautica in the Battle of Britain

Thanks for the book suggestion. I seem to be compiling quite a list of reading material I need to get these last few days.

Greg Boeser · Jul 14, 2018

michael rauls said:
This may be a bit of double dipping so to speak since its a subtype of my original pick but there was a land based subtype of the SBD called the A24 banshee( not to be confused with the later jet fighter of the same name) that served with the army and the free french from Morocco to the liberation of France right through 1945. Yet how many people have even heard of this type.

USAAF units operated them in the Pacific theater as well. 8th Bomb Squadron (light) flew them in New Guinea, a squadron flew them in the Aleutians against Kiska.
A-25 Shrikes were also used (USAAF version of SB2C).
There are other ignored aircraft, but to mention them would shine a light on them and then someone might take a fancy, and they wouldn't be the most ignored any more.

Capt. Vick · Jul 14, 2018

Vickers Warwick...weren't 800+ produced?

Most ignored combat aircraft of ww2

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