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You'd need to explain more than that. My youngest daughter is a secondary school teacher and most of her pupils have no idea which decade(s) the second world war took place in,far less what equipment was used to fight it.
I knew my grandmother who was bombed in Canterbury and my grandfather who served in various theatres. My children did not and the next generation of children are totally disconnected from what to them is ancient history. It's something that sometimes happens (usually badly) in Hollywood movies.
Cheers
Steve
I agree...when I was a kid, there were combat vets all around me and WWI was still in living memory, WWII and Korea being even more recent.
So the stories were being recalled first hand (the few stories that they'd share) and we had a grasp of the efforts and sacrifices they made as well as the equipment they used. Many years ago, I was refinishing the stock of a 7x57mm Mauser where I worked, and my co-worker and I were puzzling over a series of "grooves" that were all over the lower stock (both sides, from the reciever to the butt) and I concluded that they were the result of being "knocked around" over the years. A long time customer (who has long since passed away) happened to come into the store, and saw our project and gave it a close look. When I commented on the mystery of the rough condition of the stock, he looked at me and said "Hell son, that's not from wear and tear...some poor bastard was using that as a club!" He pointed out that the "grooves" were made from the edges of Allied helmets...We were speechless!
So we solved a mystery because of a person who had a first hand account and I think it's most important to do what we can to educate the newer generations as best as possible in the hopes that they will someday pass it on to the next.
I agree...when I was a kid, there were combat vets all around me and WWI was still in living memory, WWII and Korea being even more recent.
So the stories were being recalled first hand (the few stories that they'd share) and we had a grasp of the efforts and sacrifices they made as well as the equipment they used. Many years ago, I was refinishing the stock of a 7x57mm Mauser where I worked, and my co-worker and I were puzzling over a series of "grooves" that were all over the lower stock (both sides, from the reciever to the butt) and I concluded that they were the result of being "knocked around" over the years. A long time customer (who has long since passed away) happened to come into the store, and saw our project and gave it a close look. When I commented on the mystery of the rough condition of the stock, he looked at me and said "Hell son, that's not from wear and tear...some poor bastard was using that as a club!" He pointed out that the "grooves" were made from the edges of Allied helmets...We were speechless!
So we solved a mystery because of a person who had a first hand account and I think it's most important to do what we can to educate the newer generations as best as possible in the hopes that they will someday pass it on to the next.
I agree with that Dave. I forgot to mention that most of my school teachers were WW2 Vets and taught us history with a personal touch. I started work in 1972 and a lot of colleagues were vets too, all with a different story to tell be they Burma Star, Merchant Navy, Navy, Army or Airforce.Some were very bitter and some found humour in even the darkest hour.
I too hope that the stories like your get passed on, and perhaps mosre importantly the idea that being as free as we are today was won not given.
John
I don't really get this poll.
The P-51 has been picked as the bets overall fighter of WWII by more than 5 inetrnational panels of judges. Before the P-51, the war wasn't going well in Europe. After the P-51 was there for awhile it was. Spitfires, Typoons, Hurricanes, and Tempests weren't escorting the bombers to Berlin, the P-51 was along with the P-38 for awhile before the P-38 departed for the ETO where it won.
I don't really get this poll.
The P-51 has been picked as the best overall fighter of WWII by more than 5 inetrnational panels of judges. Before the P-51, the war wasn't going well in Europe. After the P-51 was there for awhile it was. Spitfires, Typoons, Hurricanes, and Tempests weren't escorting the bombers to Berlin, the P-51 was along with the P-38 for a short while before the P-38 departed for the ETO where it won.
How is it overrated? It may not be the best at any particular task but, overall all ALL tasks, there were few or none better. High speed, high altitude, long range, plently of airframes, better than average maneuverability, adequately armed, with a reliable engine and radio. What other aircraft had more good qualities?They might have the same number of good qualities, but more? I don.t see it.
I chose the A6M and the Me-163.
The Zero was an underpowered and underprotected airplane that was able to outperform a number of western types because of its extremely light construction. It had some advantages over early war types such as the P-40 and F4F, but was not the amazing plane made out to be by some. Basically outclassed by 1943, which is not a good thing for a plane only first introduced in late 1940.
The Me-163 was a pointless exercise in high-performance waste.
International panel of judges? Paula Adul and Simon Cowel?
The P-51 'score' should be weighted and reduced by a factor of 4. The P-51B wasn't present in any significant numbers till January 1944 having flown a few tentative missions in mid december 1943. The earlier Allison P-51A made no significant impact both in numbers and missions due to the limmitations of its high altitude performance.
Not entirely clear what you mean by 'score should be reduced by a factor of 4'. If you mean victory credits in the ETO then the same review panel was used for all victory credits and the P-38/P-47 scores would be impacted in the same way. If you are merely exaggerating to make a point then you are entitled to your opinion but perhaps need to do a little more research,
First, the P-51A, A-36 and Mark I and II's were in combat in the roles the AAF and RAF assigned them in Africa, CBI and ETO before the P-47 saw combat.
The P-47D-25 and newer variants had a wet wing and arrived in ETO in June, 1944 after the Long Rang Escorts (P-38/P-51) had crippled LW defenses over Germany - a battle that P-47s were largely watching from the short range sidelines.
It's also clear that P-47 improvements in fuel tankage were capable of not only matching but exceding P-51 range and that these improvements could also have been accelerated. Furthermore the P-38 was also being improved and had overcome its technical bugs around the time the P-51B started its first missions.
Not true, particularly for ETO. If you want to compare P-47N to P-51D you have a point but the role of the P-47N in the PTO was less than the P-51D in all respects and it did not have the performance of the 'same generation' P-51H.
As th the P-38J, the necesary Intercooler and dive flap mods didn't come into the ETO until June 1944 and boosted ailerons until a month later with the arrivals of J-25's. Very few P-38L's ever flew in 8th AF and only served in three squadrons in the 9th and several in the MTO. By that time the Battle over Germany was pretty much 'done'
I would say even the P-40 was more important than the P-51. It held the line and it is clear that the US and UK would have suffered many defeats without it that may not have been reversible.
Out of curiosity what did you have in mind regarding 'irreversible defeats' - and in what context did you value the P-40 over say the F4F in 1942 had the AAF had a need to fill a vacuum not served until P-38 or even P-51A was available?
Another international poll said Rickenbacker was the 2nd most important pilot in WW1 after Richhofenbut I don't think he was even in the top 10.I don't really get this poll.
The P-51 has been picked as the bets overall fighter of WWII by more than 5 inetrnational panels of judges. Before the P-51, the war wasn't going well in Europe. After the P-51 was there for awhile it was. Spitfires, Typoons, Hurricanes, and Tempests weren't escorting the bombers to Berlin, the P-51 was along with the P-38 for awhile before the P-38 departed for the ETO where it won.
How is it overrated? It may not be the best at any particular task but, overall all ALL tasks, there were few or none better. High speed, high altitude, long range, plently of airframes, better than average maneuverability, adequately armed, with a reliable engine and radio. What other aircraft had MORE good qualities? They might have had the same number of good qualities, but more? I don.t see it.
Yo, Dave - did you try to steam the grooves out with wet cloth and iron?
I agree...when I was a kid, there were combat vets all around me and WWI was still in living memory, WWII and Korea being even more recent.
So the stories were being recalled first hand (the few stories that they'd share) and we had a grasp of the efforts and sacrifices they made as well as the equipment they used. Many years ago, I was refinishing the stock of a 7x57mm Mauser where I worked, and my co-worker and I were puzzling over a series of "grooves" that were all over the lower stock (both sides, from the reciever to the butt) and I concluded that they were the result of being "knocked around" over the years. A long time customer (who has long since passed away) happened to come into the store, and saw our project and gave it a close look. When I commented on the mystery of the rough condition of the stock, he looked at me and said "Hell son, that's not from wear and tear...some poor bastard was using that as a club!" He pointed out that the "grooves" were made from the edges of Allied helmets...We were speechless!
So we solved a mystery because of a person who had a first hand account and I think it's most important to do what we can to educate the newer generations as best as possible in the hopes that they will someday pass it on to the next.[/QUOTE
Assuming the gentleman was refering to Allied troops in WWII and that you are correct about the caliber, I'm afraid he was mistaken. The 7x57 was not the German service cartridge. It was the 7.92x57 chambered in the 98 Mauser.
Duane