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First of all, I doubt that the British would have much success in acquiring a Type 99 for their Wellington.Gee, maybe take the 20mm tail gun off of a G4M or an He 111. Give me a break.
Plenty of cases where the escorts were not able to fully protect their force. Even in a fantasy scenario.Actually they were. They were more than enough. You don't have to protect every single bomber every single time, you just have to do enough to keep the attrition rate reasonably low. If P-40s could do that for A-20s and B-25s in Tunisia in 1942 and 1943, then I suspect A6Ms could do it for Wellingtons in 1941. P-51s certainly did it for B-17s and B-24s in 1944.
Unless the aircraft is completely destroyed, it'll either be back in service soon or cannibalized. And how did that raid stop replacement parts from coming in as soon as that evening? And how did that raid stop the neighboring Staffels from providing coverage until they got back to strength?In one day (April 26, 1943) in a single raid on Bari the DAF destroyed more than 50 Luftwaffe aircraft including 19 Bf 109s and 12 Fw 190s, with another 21 BF 109 and 42 Fw 10s damaged 40-60%. Thats almost 100 front line fighters you don't have to shoot down the hard way. Can you imagine how that might be useful or no?
Communications = infrastructure.In Tunisia they were bombing the crap out of Axis airfields and destroyed a ton of aircraft on the ground. They were also hitting the communications links, not just in the forward areas but much further back - around the airfields. This in combination did a great deal of harm to the Luftwaffe and the Regia Aeronautica. If you were in the BoB and suffering from a sustained bombing campaign you might want this too.
Speer was able to prop up the German's effort, but the attrition was crippling their efforts and limited their ability to wage war by a great deal. So no need to tell him, he already knew, brah.Tell that to Albert Speer bruh.
Gee, maybe take the 20mm tail gun off of a G4M or an He 111. Give me a break.
And of course the purpose of a gun turret on a bomber is primarily to deter attackers, and I reckon a hail of 303 will do that just fine, even if the attacker survives.Give us a break. Not everybody used the same 20mm cannon.
British 20mm Hispano was much longer and almost twice as heavy as the 20mm guns used by HE 111 or G4Ms. It won't fit where the short light 20mm MG/ff will.
The Hispano fired faster and used a much more powerful round.
Which is better, some poor gunner trying to heave a 20mm cannon around using muscles and the 20mm is slow firing and has a very small magazine (15-30 rounds?) or a power turret with two .303s that fire almost 3 times faster than the 20mm and have belt feeds? The power turrets had a much wider field of fire.
First of all, I doubt that the British would have much success in acquiring a Type 99 for their Wellington.
You broke down in your own failed logic.So no break given.
Plenty of cases where the escorts were not able to fully protect their force. Even in a fantasy scenario.
Unless the aircraft is completely destroyed, ... providing coverage until they got back to strength? It didn't.
However, the Luftwaffe's raid on Bari a little while later focused on the harbor and did far more damage for about the same effort.
Speer was able to prop up the German's effort, but the attrition was crippling their efforts and limited their ability to wage war by a great deal. So no need to tell him, he already knew, brah.
Give us a break. Not everybody used the same 20mm cannon.
British 20mm Hispano was much longer and almost twice as heavy as the 20mm guns used by HE 111 or G4Ms. It won't fit where the short light 20mm MG/ff will. The Hispano fired faster and used a much more powerful round.
Which is better, some poor gunner trying to heave a 20mm cannon around using muscles and the 20mm is slow firing and has a very small magazine (15-30 rounds?) or a power turret with two .303s that fire almost 3 times faster than the 20mm and have belt feeds? The power turrets had a much wider field of fire.
Yes, because that was what actually happened in the real world. The A6M had a vastly, vastly longer range than any mark of the Spitfire and it didn't get an extra 1,000 miles range due to flying over water either. I don't think any of that is controversial. To say or even imply otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
From what I understand some of the aircraft in the BoB weren't that well protected either. Regardless, two 20mm cannon can wreck any 1941 plane.
Ignoring the laws of physics is also a bit dishonest. The Zero was not that much lower in drag than an early Spitfire (if as low).
A Spit I with a fixed pitch prop (hardly ideal) could fly 220mph true at 15,000ft on 27imp gallons an hour.
At 7000ft it could do 200mph true while burning 24.1 imp gallons an hour.
The Zero could run it's engine leaner, especially at low speeds which helped a lot but double or triple the range requires a bit of of swallowing.
What are you arguing exactly? That the Spitfire had the same range as the A6M ? If you are A) I am incredulous, and B) the problem with the theory is the entire wartime history of both planes. Are you just having a hard time getting your head around the history? It is what it is.
I can't tell you precisely what made the Zero have such phenomenal range (and to be honest, while I'm interested in aeronautical engineering I'm not that interested and frankly don't care exactly how it worked that much). I know it did have that phenomenal range and no amount of back of the envelope engineering math is ever going to convince me otherwise. Or anyone else. Zero fighters were routinely flying from Rabaul to Guadalcanal - that is over 1,000 km. They were able to fly that far, fight, and fly back to base. Saburo Sakai did it with one eye.
And it didn't require a drop tank on the whole time either!
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We were talking about a (ridiculous) hypothetical scenario of using A6Ms to escort Wellingtons ... and you are giving me grief about an offhand suggestion that they put a 20mm gun on the Wellingtons tail? Seriously bruh? So use G4MS if you can't figure it out. Or borrow some ShVak cannon from the Soviets in reverse lend-lease...
He is telling you that the Zero could achieve that range because it flew largely over undefended airspace and so could fly at slow speeds and altitudes to maximise range.
Actually they were. They were more than enough. You don't have to protect every single bomber every single time, you just have to do enough to keep the attrition rate reasonably low. If P-40s could do that for A-20s and B-25s in Tunisia in 1942 and 1943, then I suspect A6Ms could do it for Wellingtons in 1941. P-51s certainly did it for B-17s and B-24s in 1944.
And I'm telling you both that is a load of B.S.
S
Ok, so what speed would the Zero cruise at on long flights?
300mph TAS?
Or more like 200mph TAS?
200 TAS is probably about right, so what? I show for A6M2 207 mph cruise speed
Bf 109E had a cruise speed of 240 mph... again, so what? And a range of 410 miles. I know the P-51 had a very high cruise speed but that was 3 years later.
I also show A6M with 1,625 'typical' range and 1,929 'max'. Plus initial climb of 4,517 fpm which is nothing short of phenomenal for 1941, and climb to 19,685 in 7 minutes 27 seconds. Also excellent. Both far better than the Bf 109E (or the G-6 for that matter)
I think just about every fighter I ever heard of had a pretty low cruise speed in long flights. I know the comparison to the Spitfire was extremely disingenuous of him to make to begin with and of you to entertain. Like I said, I don't buy it. We have had these kinds of debates before on this forum and I don't think you to are on the level.
S
When you bomb a factory, you damage the machinery, tooling, dies and jigs - which all have to be replaced. You damage the building and it's confines, the inventory and essentials - this too, has to be rebuilt or replaced. There may have been skilled workers who perished in the attack, this means that the manufacturer has to replace them and skilled or experiences workers were becoming few and far between. All of this creates a costly interruption to production and can (and did) lead to a dramatic decline in quality.
200 TAS is probably about right, so what? I show for A6M2 207 mph cruise speed
Bf 109E had a cruise speed of 240 mph... again, so what? And a range of 410 miles. I know the P-51 had a very high cruise speed but that was 3 years later.
Absolutely!Not only that, but resources had to be expended to defend these industries. That is men and equipment that could have been used elsewhere.