Kevin J
Banned
In the BoB the Germans more often than not claimed it was Spitfires that they had shot down. Unfortunately, their total claims by the end of the BoB exceeded total production to date.
Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....?
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
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fubar57
General
This is from the book "Fighter Command 1936-1968: An Operational and Historical Record" by Ken Delve 2007....
1939-1945
Kevin J
Banned
That looks a lot more plausible. I assume it excludes 2nd Tactical Air Force and ADGB figures. That would give 2250 Spitfire victories although we would still have 3713 Hurricane victories. I could certainly get to that figure as follows: 2500, UK & France; 500, Malta; 750, mainly Italian in the Western Desert on the assumption that with 50% more Hurricanes there, they scored 50% more victories. Also would be the assumption that those Fighter Command victories include the victories of FC units posted to the Med.
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fubar57
General
In the Mediterranean it was called the Middle East Command from 1941-43 so its doubtful.
Kevin J
Banned
When in 1941 did it become Middle East Command, is that after the Tomahawk and Spitfire replaced the Hurricane as the war out there started in June 1940.
fubar57
General
Dec. '41-Dec. '43. Prior to that it was called RAF Middle East
fubar57
General
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
And never part of Fighter Command
Kevin J
Banned
That may well explain everything as its the point at which the Tomahawk has taken over as the main air superiority fighter, followed by the Kittyhawk then Spitfire. So those 12000 Fighter Command claims probably include the Med, Greece and Western Desert where most of the claims would have been by Hurricanes.
Kevin J
Banned
Agreed, but the first casualty of war is the truth.
fubar57
General
This article is called "What did Fighter Command do After the Battle of Britain? What Did Fighter Command Do After The Battle Of Britain?
In the lengthy article, this small paragraph is the only time that Africa, the Mediterranean and the Far East are mentioned...
"In the autumn of 1942 a dozen Fighter Command squadrons were despatched to support Operation 'Torch', the Allied landings in North Africa. Another six followed in early 1943. These deployments were the latest to a theatre which had long been crying out for fighter reinforcements, especially Spitfires. The war in the Mediterranean, and indeed further afield in the Far East, continued to pose a drain on the RAF's domestic strength for much of the war."
Click on the blue "North Africa" which takes you to that theater and no mention of Fighter Command. It is called "Western Desert Air Force (WDAF)"
In the lengthy article, this small paragraph is the only time that Africa, the Mediterranean and the Far East are mentioned...
"In the autumn of 1942 a dozen Fighter Command squadrons were despatched to support Operation 'Torch', the Allied landings in North Africa. Another six followed in early 1943. These deployments were the latest to a theatre which had long been crying out for fighter reinforcements, especially Spitfires. The war in the Mediterranean, and indeed further afield in the Far East, continued to pose a drain on the RAF's domestic strength for much of the war."
Click on the blue "North Africa" which takes you to that theater and no mention of Fighter Command. It is called "Western Desert Air Force (WDAF)"
haha, maybe that
I know it was a fantastic plane all the way. But I don't like the 'symbol' it has become in Europe. Nobody in my country even knows about the Hurricane, Hellcat, P-47, P-51, FW190, Bf109 etc - and IF they saw one, they would probably think it was a Spitfire anyway!
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,984
- Jun 25, 2013
Wait? The Germans over-claimed? Can't be. The British must have lied about Spitfire production.
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Same thing happened in the desert the Germans regularly shot down more aircraft than the allies had. Obviously the main reason Rommel won.
Kevin J
Banned
No, it wasn't that at all, the Americans were telling the Germans what our battle plans were.
haha, maybe that
I know it was a fantastic plane all the way. But I don't like the 'symbol' it has become in Europe. Nobody in my country even knows about the Hurricane, Hellcat, P-47, P-51, FW190, Bf109 etc - and IF they saw one, they would probably think it was a Spitfire anyway!
Even during WW2 the Germans would shout Actung Spifure even if the a/c wasn't a Spitfire. They even claimed they shot down/were shot down by a Spitfire even if they weren't.
In many cases it was impossible to tell the difference. It was in no way significant that German claims exceeded UK production, what was significant was that UK production after May 1940 was in excess of German production and by a large margin. The crux of the battle was what the commanders believed, close to the end Goering believed the RAF was down to its last 50 S/E fighters, in fact over the course of the battle RAF front line strength increased from about 500 to about 700, the quality of the pilots had been greatly reduced however.
Kevin J
Banned
The lucky ones were shot down by Spitfires, their guns had a shotgun effect, so you might survive the encounter. Hurricanes simply made mincemeat of them.
Kevin J
Banned
We won because we had more 'bloody foreigners' than they did, even Phil the Greek was really a Kraut. Our insidious plan to 'make the World English' had been going on for centuries, the approved methods being the 'boy on girl' one, or 'she stoops to conquer' one.
