MOST OVERRATED AIRCRAFT OF WWII (1 Viewer)

But what if its not about the Lanc.

then i don't really say much.............

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yeah just like that................

I figured I would give it a try.

Yep, spamming is fun!
Most overrated plane is the Stuka IMO- any lack of air superiority and it was a turkey shoot

I will agree that the Stuka was overated. But I would not say the most overated. I will have to think of this one for a while.

I disagree with Udet's assertion concerning the Spitfire....
It did it's part in the BoB, and as stated once before, when asked if they wanted anything, Goering's pilots asked for a Squadron of Spitfires...then not long after, Hitler cancelled 'Operation Sealion'...- After that, Spits were kept busy dealing with the low-flying 'Sneak Raiders' and flying the 'Big Wings' over France and the Low Countries to try and draw-up those 'Top Luftwaffe Geschwaders' you were talking about, which I may add, got as good as they gave.....Even with the intro of the then superior Fw-190, the Mk.V Spits kept taking it to them, and there were plenty of Luftwaffe carcasses left in the Channel, even our RAF 485 [NZ] Sqn. chewed a few out.....From 1942 on, Spitfires were often engaged escorting USAAF bombers in out of Europe, until they got their own escorts sorted-out, and escorting Hurri-bombers and other types on bombing missions.....The only thing Spitfire fighters lacked was a greater range, but the PR models still continued their exemplary service throughout the War.....

As for the Lancaster, it greatly enhanced the effectiveness of Bomber Command when introduced in March 1942.....The first 4,000 lb'er was dropped a year earlier, and the first 8,000 lb'er a month before the Lancaster's intro, so when saddled with them, it was ''Destruction-Deutschland''...[not to mention the really big-bombs, eh Lanc ??]......
As far as it's armament went, I'm not that chuffed with it either, but effective-enough it was, not many NF's came back for seconds [if you've read the history], and the sustained-damage that these aircraft managed to return with, was impressive not only to their manufacturer, but also in the courage skill of their Aircrew; many made it back shot to pieces on just one engine....To imply this aircraft was 'over-rated', implies you haven't learn't to read your WWII Aviation History properly......

The Bf-110 WAS over-rated....'Destroyer' indeed; it was stuffed without an escort in daylight, found a role as a NF, as it could keep-up with RAF Bombers...[a role which the bigger Ju-88 excelled in]....why the Bf-210 'successor' was even worse !!....The Bf-110 belongs with the Ju-87, real great shooting-up ground-targets, until there's fighter-opposition...... And if we're gonna add the Il-2, we may as well add the Hs-129......

Gemhorse:

I am sorry to inform your comments are quite unaccurate.

JG 2 and JG 26 gave the RAF a tremendous pounding from 1941 to early 1943.

The Schlageter and Richtofen geschwadern kept a kill ratio of nearly 4:1 over the RAF through the entire 1942.

Have you read about the Dieppe raid?
There, the Luftwaffe fighters shot down nearly 110 British planes, the majority of them Spitfires. The Germans lost about 20 fighters and about 10-15 bombers.

110 British planes destroyed in just a few hours of fierce combat?
Was there any day when the RAF -even during the BoB- came close to destroy such number of German planes in combat -in one single day-?

The Spitfire never had the level of the Fw 190, much less the Mk V version who is recorded to have been slaughtered by the Butcher Bird.

Before the Dieppe Raid, the Channel Dash, when Admiral Otto Ciliax took "Scharnhorst", "Gneisenau", "Prinz Eugen" and their escorts out of Brest forcing the Pas de Calais, turned out another day of total disaster for the RAF. Beginning with a number of torpedo armed Swordfish biplanes who got exterminated to the very last, ending -again- with the Spitfires who got slaughtered, showing the RAF was still far from being capable of challenging the Luftwaffe on its own -also speaking of the capabilities of the Royal Navy-.

These are recorded facts.

Its amazing how the RAF survived isn't Udet with all this slaughtering going on If these various aircraft where so Superior to the Spites and Hurries as you intermate how come they lost the BoB (let me guess, they could have won but it was a political decision to ease off and nothing to do with unsustainable losses inflicted upon the Luftwaffe by the RAF) Its hardly surprising the 6 Swordfish got blown out of the sky's going against ships which consisted of (under Vice-Admiral Otto Ciliax,) the Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen, plus ten destroyers, 15 fast torpedo boats and three flotillas of E-boats , Jagdgeschwader 1, 2 and 26 of Luftflotte 3 of the Luftwaffe. Perhaps the FAA pilots new what the odds against them where and what the out come would be and this was the reasons for the VC's being awarded.
As for the event its self what did it achieve. Zero, it consisted of a fleet of ships going through the channel no attacks on the UK ports no bringing the RN into a major navel action it was exactly as it is now known a dash to try and get through and not get obliterated. The German surface fleet in WW2 was the most insignificant arm of the German forces this is why it spent most of its life sitting in various ports when it did try to venture out with the purpose of engaging the enemy in any force they got sunk. Some didn't even make it out of port for more than a few days.

Yes Udet, we would have won the war if it began in Januar 1942 and ended, oh about Autumn 1942 before the spitfire 9 came out in competitive numbers No doubt!! Start the war in 1939 or even 1943? hmm... I wish, but doubtful

Gemhorse said:

The Bf-110 WAS over-rated....'Destroyer' indeed; it was stuffed without an escort in daylight, found a role as a NF, as it could keep-up with RAF Bombers...[a role which the bigger Ju-88 excelled in]....why the Bf-210 'successor' was even worse !!....The Bf-110 belongs with the Ju-87, real great shooting-up ground-targets, until there's fighter-opposition...... And if we're gonna add the Il-2, we may as well add the Hs-129......

Click to expand...

I agree the 110 was overated. Maybe not the most over rated but very overated. The Me-410 however was not bad. It was a good versatile aircraft that was just not produced eneogh nor entered service in time.

Me-410

Type: Two-seat tactical aircraft for fighter, attack and recon duties plus specialized variants
Origin: Messerschmitt AG
Models: A and B series
First Flight: December 1942
Service Delivery: N/A
Final Delivery: N/A
Engine:
(A) Two Daimler-Benz DB 603A inverted liquid cooled V12
Horsepower: 1,750 hp ea.
(B) Two Daimler-Benz DB 603G inverted liquid cooled V12
Horsepower: 1,900 hp ea.

Fuel:
Capacity: N/A
Type: N/A

Dimensions:
Wing span: 16.4m (53 ft. 7.75 in.)
Length: 12.45m (40 ft. 10 in.)
Height: 3.10m (14 ft. 0.5 in.)
Wing Surface Area: N/A

Weights:
Empty: 6,150kg (13,560 lbs.)
Maximum: 10,650kg (23,483 lbs.)
Performance:
Maximum Speed: 620km/h (385 mph)
Initial climb: 2,133ft/min (650m/min)
Range (with full bomb load): 1,447 miles (2330 km)
Service Ceiling: 32,800 ft. (10,000m)
Armament:
Two remotely controlled powered barbettes on sides of fuselage each housing one 13mm MG 131
And
Internal weapons bay housing various combinations of weapons ranging from 7.92mm MG 17 machine guns, MG 151's, Mk 108 30mm cannon, BK5 50mm cannon with 21 rounds all the way up to 210mm rockets in a rotary tube configuration (tested, but poor results prevented front-line use).
Or
Two 1,102 lb. (500kg) Bombs
And
External Racks for two 1,102 lb. (500kg) Bombs
Plus
Two Ruestatz external packs housing Mg 151, Mk 108 or Mk 103 cannons were fitted to some variants

Avionics:
SN-2 Lichtenstein Radar on Me 410A-2/U-2 Night Fighter
FuG 200 Hohentwiel ASV (air/surface vessel) Radar on Me 410B-6 Anti-Shipping variant.

Udet you also have to remember that during the BoB the Germans were fighting the British over England. There are going to be more losses like that because there are more aircraft. The same was true for the Germans when the allies were fighting the Luftwaffe over Germany.

Schöpfel said:

Yes Udet, we would have won the war if it began in Januar 1942 and ended, oh about Autumn 1942 before the spitfire 9 came out in competitive numbers No doubt!! Start the war in 1939 or even 1943? hmm... I wish, but doubtful

Click to expand...

Even as a German who loves Germany very much I am glad we lost the war. The world is better off that way.

Fuel:
Capacity: N/A

Click to expand...

interesting............

Gentlemen:

The "if their planes were soooo superior...why did they lose the war..." tone can lead one to assume you are running out of sound arguments -or the lack thereof-.

What came of "Scharnhorst", "Gneisenau" and "Prinz Eugen" after the Channel Dash is not an issue here. It lacks relevance.

The issue was rather the absolute failure of both the RAF and Royal Navy to hinder the enemy move; such failure impliying important losses for the RAF.

"Well, they broke through but after that, those heavy units achieved nothing, therefore it was a victory". Non-sense.

Not that this is a place to discuss naval issues, but the Admiralty could not have a clear idea of what the heavy Kriegsmarine units would do in the future. They would have done everything possible to hinder the move and in attempting that they failed.

Trackend, your comment is like a looping torpedo threatening with destroying the vessel that fired it.

If the RAF had superior planes -bringing the BoB forward as evidence- and the Royal Navy could handle the Kriegsmarine at will, how come they failed in such a manner?

Note i have not suggested the Spitfire to be placed in the "most overrated" category. It was simply overrated. A fine and capable plane which also had its limitations.


The bravery of the Swordfish pilots who were sent to carry on with such a ludicrous task , like attacking a powerful naval fleet enjoying important air cover- is not an issue either. Their bravery is doubtless, but not a topic for discussion here.

Perhaps, and i repeat perhaps, they recalled the Bismark episode and believed a similar hit could be repeated. I doubt it. Conditions had no paralelisms at all. Bismark lacked air cover in high seas, but during the Channel Dash, the Butcher Bird was on stage. I heard someone saying the annihilation of the entire Swordfish flight was kind of a less publicized debt the Germans finally collected.


If you want to continue denying that after the Battle of Britain, when the Sptifire had to leave the den and pursue the enemy, the British fighter proved uncapable of gaining air superiority, then all i can say that is your own business.

It was not until the build up of the USAAF in England became significant, mainly the long range ability of US fighters -late 1943- that the Spitfires showed any improvement in their performance. Now the hardships were to be shared with the P-47s and later on with the P-51s.

Shared risks, shared profits.

I agree the Zero was overrated, but i'd also have to nominate the IL-2.

It was poorly made in mass numbers and only completed missions because there were so many swarming the skies.

I'll agree with the IL-2

Udet I did not bring up the subject of the swordfish you did so the irrelevance lies with yourself as it was the Spitfire you where talking about if you believe this is not the place to discuss naval matters then I will not pursue the matter even though it was yourself that bought the subject into the conversation. oh just one little thing at what point did I say it was a victory for the British because the channel dash failed to achieve anything.

and tell the crew of the tirpitz that the RAF couldn't stop naval units........

Ah Udet, you may not have studied your history that well.....What makes you think the 'Channel Dash' was a failure on the part of the British ?...You don't want to talk about the German battleships AFTER the event, so what about before ?....

Naturally Britain wanted those ships sorted-out, they were hindering the RN's activities, and having them floating around causing trouble, it was better they were back in German ports where they could be bombed. Britain had already sorted-out the Bismarck, the Prinz Eugen escaped and joined the Scharnhorst Gneisenau in Brest on June 1, 1941. Please note that the Gneisenau had already been torpedoed and severely damaged by a Beaufort [from 22 Sqn.] on April 6, '41, and then clobbered 5 nights later by Bomber Command....
Come July, the Prinz Eugen was seriously damaged by a bomb-hit on the night of the 1-2nd by BC....Then on the 23rd, the Scharnhorst, after refitting, had sailed for La Pallice for proving trials, but got hit by 5 bombs dropped by Halifax's of BC the following day, and limped back to Brest for lengthy repairs.... Further air raids on Brest wasn't inflicting much damage, so British High Command had a think about it all, and come up with a plan to draw them out, which they called 'Operation Hardboiled'.... They decided to make a fake attack on Stavanger, on the Norwegian coast, which was deliberately gossiped about around London, and naturally it got back to the German High Command. So when the attack on Norway went ahead on the 26th Dec. '41, Blenheims bombing the fighter airfield at Herdla, near Bergen, and Commandos raiding the nearby islands of Vaasgo and Maaloy, Hitler's famous 'intuition' flared, and because he was real panicky about his Swedish iron-ore supplies, he ordered Admiral Raeder to bring the ships up from Brest, a.s.a.p, in the first lot of dirty weather........
In the meantime, BC had been extensively mining along the coast through the Frisian Islands, and all the Joint Commands were ready and waiting.........
Well, the German Fleet indeed picked a spot of real dirty weather, leaving Brest in the evening of Feb. 11th, 1942, they nearly got clobbered by a BC raid of 18 Wellingtons, but finally got going by about 11 pm. ''The fickle finger of Fate'' intervened, they passed close to the sub HMS. Sealion, which had been lurking around Brest, and passed five different Hudsons, 3 of whose ASV radar was on the blink, and by extraordinary coincidence, passed neatly through the Coastal Command's surveillance screen..........
Now Adolf Galland was in charge of Air Cover and had 270 fighters at his disposal, which he deployed with his usual consumate skill, so that the Force always had 30 aircraft in the defensive umbrella....From about that point on, yeah, the British Joint Commands made a series of cock-ups mostly due to the rotten weather and German jamming of their communications, costing the Brits about 32 aircraft, plus damaged ones, for 7 German, plus damaged..........
But sure enough, the Germans had fallen into the main trap, and at 1430 hrs on the 12th, the Scharnhorst hit a mine, then at 1955 hrs, the Gneisanau hit one off Terschelling, and limped off to park-up in the mouth of the Elbe with the Prinz Eugen for the night - Then, at 2130 hrs, the Scharnhorst hit one too, far worse than earlier, and limped into Wilhelmshaven the next morning for extensive repairs....But hey !...10 days later, the Prinz Eugen was torpedoed by HMS. Trident, which parked her up for the rest of the War, and on the night of the 26th Feb., a bomb from a BC raid on Kiel hit the Gneisenau, putting her outa the War too !....The Scharnhorst went down with 1,800 crew on Dec. 26 '43, off the North Cape of Norway after a sound 'boxing'... [Boxing Day ?..get it!?]...by Royal Navy warships.....

In his memoirs, Admiral Raeder wrote; ''for Germany it was a tactical victory and a strategic defeat''......

[no wonder you didn't want to talk about it !!!]....The inter-force rivalry of the British Armed Forces has always been there, in fact it's in most country's keen forces, and that may have had something to do with the British muddle too, but they had a plan and it worked, with typical British stubborness.
As far as the Spitfire goes in all this, the Mk.V's could still down the odd Fw-190 and more regularly, Bf-109F's, the Mk.IX's certainly evened it up on it's introduction....The Fw-190 may have had an ascendancy then, but they were still shot down, just not in great numbers; I've got RAF 485 [NZ] Sqn.'s updated ORB figures in front of me, and our more seasoned chaps were shooting them down in their Mk.V's, these 'Top Geschwader' pilots....I still refute the Over-rated bit, as quite frankly, they were all fairly well matched;- new variants came in, shot down a few, then the other side would bring out a new one...etc, etc, and also, both the British and German fighters were small, compared to the American fighters, but that's all we had, and they were modified to accomodate the changing situations.............

great post and great story there, i must admit i didn't know most of that..........