Most overrated german plane?
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Shortround6
Major General
Well, they built a lot more 109s than 190s.
Total number deployed makes a big difference in simple box score.
And then you have the fact that several thousand 190s ( at a minimum) were built and deployed as fighter bombers. The 190F and G series. Yes some 109s were used as fighter bombers but to the extent the 190 was, special versions assigned to special attack groups in large numbers.
Total number deployed makes a big difference in simple box score.
And then you have the fact that several thousand 190s ( at a minimum) were built and deployed as fighter bombers. The 190F and G series. Yes some 109s were used as fighter bombers but to the extent the 190 was, special versions assigned to special attack groups in large numbers.
190, overrated? How so?
Also add politics. MTT had those in charge by the short and curlies.
The 109 had a 2 year head start on the 190 and that head start was in the glory years of the Luftwaffe.
Depends on the engines mostly. The 606s gave problems but the 610s not so much.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
There were a considerable amount of Experten who flew the Fw190.
One such Fw190 Experten that comes to mind, would be Gerhard Thyben, who had 157 victories to his credit in the 190. Add to that, is the notoriety of making the last Fw190 victory over an enemy when he downed a Pe-2 on 8 May 1945 - with his crew chief tucked away in the baggage compartment!
wuzak
Captain
The question is, was it overrated at all?
As far as I can tell, it has been largely thought of as a death trap.
JohnWV
Airman
Just my personal opinion, that's all. I am no expert nor do I claim to be.
Just from what I see. No biggie if you don't like my personal opinion.---John
Just from what I see. No biggie if you don't like my personal opinion.---John
Well, why in your opinion was it overrated?
I only as because:
1. It was a well respected aircraft.
2. Gave the advantage back to the Luftwaffe for a while when it was introduced to front line service.
3. Allied evaluations were favorable.
4. Was a versatile multirole aircraft.
5. Had great performance.
The number of kills tell only a small part ofthe story. The 109 for instance was in service longer, and built in much larger numbers. Of course it will have more kills. The 109 had more kills than the P-51. I doubt too many people will say the 51 was overrated for that reason either. See my point?
GregP
Major
In Erich Hartmann's biography, he stated that he flew the Few 190, just not in combat. He preferred to stay with the Bf 109 simply because he was so familiar with it and its handling characteristics. He didn't want to be finding out about the Fw 190's characteristics while flying it in combat.
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Who or what is MTT???
Willy Messerschmitt and company.
i would say than most major LW types were overrated
The Bf109 did score well but in reality had terrible aerodynamic characteristics,and received only a few of the possible improvements
The Fw190 was a very good fighter bomber , but as a fighter was totally outclassed in western Europe after early 1943. Terrible wing profile, bad engine, very high wingh loading.
The ju 88 was versatile ,COULD had been a great performer , but actually because of the unreasonable requirements of the RLM, its performance was actually bad. As a bomber could not penetrate the airspace of the western allies after 1942, the same as recce, as night fighter did score decently but could not face the mosquito
The Bf 110 was decent at CAS missions, inadequate as a NF, and terrible as a day air superiority fighter
The Ju 52 had very small load capability
It s not surprise that LW was defeated after 1941 o all fronts. It was not just a matter of quantity, it was also a matter of quality. RLM sacrificed quality in order to have aircraft easier to produce but simply inferior to the enemy.
On the other had Do217 had potential. it was quite fast on the weak B4 fueled BMW801s . In the form of the Do317B, essentially a 217 with DB610 engines, could be formidable.
The Bf109 did score well but in reality had terrible aerodynamic characteristics,and received only a few of the possible improvements
The Fw190 was a very good fighter bomber , but as a fighter was totally outclassed in western Europe after early 1943. Terrible wing profile, bad engine, very high wingh loading.
The ju 88 was versatile ,COULD had been a great performer , but actually because of the unreasonable requirements of the RLM, its performance was actually bad. As a bomber could not penetrate the airspace of the western allies after 1942, the same as recce, as night fighter did score decently but could not face the mosquito
The Bf 110 was decent at CAS missions, inadequate as a NF, and terrible as a day air superiority fighter
The Ju 52 had very small load capability
It s not surprise that LW was defeated after 1941 o all fronts. It was not just a matter of quantity, it was also a matter of quality. RLM sacrificed quality in order to have aircraft easier to produce but simply inferior to the enemy.
On the other had Do217 had potential. it was quite fast on the weak B4 fueled BMW801s . In the form of the Do317B, essentially a 217 with DB610 engines, could be formidable.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Schnaufer, Lent, Sayn-Wittgenstein, Streib, Meurer, Rökker and a long list of others, would disagree...
I know he never flew combat in it but wasn't he also checked out in a Me 262?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Hartmann was invited on several occasions to try the 262, but he declined each time out of loyalty to his Gruppen.
I believe (going on memory) that Galland or Bar (perhaps both?) got him to attend a conversion program at some point, but he still declined.
So in the end, Hartmann never flew the 262.
I believe (going on memory) that Galland or Bar (perhaps both?) got him to attend a conversion program at some point, but he still declined.
So in the end, Hartmann never flew the 262.
The pilots thought it was a torch, but the head honchos thought it was the next best thing to Cognac. The problem was that the pilots had no say in what was developed and were told to fly.
Please explain further, as i consider the Wurger as the best fighter of WWII, being the most versatile airframe from WWII (as fighter) and the easiest to fly (HoTaS)
Outclassed after early43: by what? the spitty? the Poney? it depends of altitudes only. above 6Km yes until then it was still the most agile fighter, able to change azimuts no other airplane could follow and the speed of the allies were not greater, mostly equal. Then came the D-9....
Terrible wing profile: why do you think that? Like all wing designs it was a good compromise. Semi-laminar profile made for speed, the most rigid wing structure available able to cope with the tremendous rollrate without aerolasticity and the wing was still "active" at lower speed, not like the poney's wing that need high speed otherwise it stalls.
Bad engine: ???? 801D2 bad engine? no really? check the BMW production numbers and match it with the 190 airframes production numbers and all other planes that flew with those engines, you'll see they didn't build them like2 times the number of airframes. it's just like i'll say the pw2800 is a bad engine (from my pov, it is as it's too big and need large compressors or turbo pipings to run at decent power through the altitude range ,but technically it's very well build). the 801 evolved from41 untill to end from 1650ps to 2000ps without issues, keeping the same size, the same ease of maintenance and it's reliability.
Very high wing loading: like all high speed fighters, it also provides you a certain instability what is good for maneuvrability.
