Night Of The Intruders

[Njaco]

Ok, heres another question....

April 22, 1944

USAAF mission 311 - American bombers to Hamm and Bonn / intercepted mostly by JG 1 andJG 3.

At night RAF to Dusseldorf and Braunschweig / intercepted by most of the Nachtjagd available.

Over England KG 51 on night intruder (Operation Gisella, I believe) intercepted....

But which force? USAAF or RAF?

Tony Wood's claims list has KG 51 claiming Halifaxes while Ian McLachlan in "Night of the Intruder" writes that USAAF was hit.

Any answers?

One other question...

Hptm. Dietrich Puttfarken was killed but did he crash into the ground near Cambridge or over the North Sea?

I know I've posted a few questions lately but this is one of the better forums on the net (sorry Blackwolf).

Thanks

 

[Erich]

this was not Unternehmen Gisela

the mission by US bombers returning over England at night has been produced in a book some years ago. KG 51 really did a hostile number on the B-17's. Dietrich was killed in the battle.

I'll be back with more later after work ........... maybe

 

[Njaco]

Thanx

Another book to the collection!!

 

[aspetuck1453]

Ok, heres another question....

April 22, 1944

USAAF mission 311 - American bombers to Hamm and Bonn / intercepted mostly by JG 1 andJG 3.

At night RAF to Dusseldorf and Braunschweig / intercepted by most of the Nachtjagd available.

Over England KG 51 on night intruder (Operation Gisella, I believe) intercepted....

But which force? USAAF or RAF?

Tony Wood's claims list has KG 51 claiming Halifaxes while Ian McLachlan in "Night of the Intruder" writes that USAAF was hit.

Any answers?

One other question...

Hptm. Dietrich Puttfarken was killed but did he crash into the ground near Cambridge or over the North Sea?

I know I've posted a few questions lately but this is one of the better forums on the net (sorry Blackwolf).

Thanks

My understanding - the Germans attacked the USAAF over several airbases in England by joining the returning B24's under the cover of darkness with "lights out". They then attacked the B24's as they were landing at their respective airbases. One B24 was attacked on it's final approach to Seething. The Me410 pulled alongside the B24 and riddled the side of the plane , pulled up to fire into the engines and the cockpit. The co-pilot of the B24 told the crew to unstrap the machine guns, load, and return fire (not exactly in those terms!) The Me410 was well hit, but managed to disappear into the darkness. The B24 landed at Seething without loss of any crew. The next day the B24 copilot and the information officer of Seething went out to a crash site of what they thought was "their" Me410. The copilot cut off a piece of the German pilots parachute to keep as a souvenir and with the information officers help, worked off one of the planes propellers that was mounted at the officers club. They later found out that the Me410 they battled with over Seething's airstrip was not the crashed Me410 - the German pilot managed to fly his damaged fighter to the coast and over the English channel but did not return to his base. It was assumed/reported that the Me410 crashed into the channel. The copilot of the B24 told me this account of "The Night Of The Intruders", mission 311. The copilot was my father.

 

[Gemhorse]

My understanding of all this is that perhaps it didn't quite happen like that ~

-Earlier in the War, in October 1941, having successfully carried out Intruder attacks over British bomber bases for just over a year, I/NJG received an order that surprised every man in the unit - it was forthwith transferred to the Mediterranean! - A Fuhrer directive emphasising the propaganda value of enemy bombers being seen to fall over the homeland rather than distant British airfields where visual evidence of success was almost non-existant, could hardly be ignored ~ And while the withdrawl of NJG 2 from Europe may have represented a significant error, one compounded by the fact that no similar unit was to replace it in harassing British bomber bases, it was also true that the Gruppe had already suffered significant losses, with over 100 pilots killed, wounded and missing, up until that time...

Also, by the early 1944 stage of the War, Allied planners were gearing the Air War towards "Operation Overlord" and whilst USAAF daylight & Bomber Command night attacks continued, there were changes in the targets to facilitate a smooth invasion on D-Day. There were for example B-26 Marauder night attacks, briefly, and the Nachtjagd mis-identified them as British "Wellington" bombers and in turn, the Marauder aircrews mis-identified their Bf-110 attackers as Me-410's. - The Me-410B-2's were used particularly as fast photo- reconnaissance over Britain, but others were also used as schnell bombers, as too with the low, fast, bombed-up Fw-190's. -It was a busy time, as the V-1 attacks had started and this not only required heavy, medium & light bombers to hit the launch sites as soon as they were discovered, but also fighters & nightfighters to track and shoot them down as they came over the Channel.

Operation Steinbock, also known as the "Little Blitz" was a Luftwaffe offensive against London which began with 447 sorties on 21/22 January 1944. It was a battle where the Luftwaffe began using "window" against the Allies and sporadically raids were carried out on through D-Day but the Allied Nightfighter force had by then been divided into the ADGB (Air Defence of Great Britain), and the 2nd TAF (Tactical Air Force) which crossed the Channel & operated from continental airfields as they were overun. The ADGB took care of any incoming Luftwaffe.

Operation Gisela was a desperate offensive started by the Nachtjagd on the night of 3/4 March 1945 which did succeed in shooting down over 20 returning RAF bombers, but the Allied Bomber offensive against Germany continued on unabated, as gradually the Nachtjagd was worn-down by the shear weight of the Allied forces...

Cheers, hope that adds another perspective...

 

[aspetuck1453]

My understanding of all this is that perhaps it didn't quite happen like that ~

-Earlier in the War, in October 1941, having successfully carried out Intruder attacks over British bomber bases for just over a year, I/NJG received an order that surprised every man in the unit - it was forthwith transferred to the Mediterranean! - A Fuhrer directive emphasising the propaganda value of enemy bombers being seen to fall over the homeland rather than distant British airfields where visual evidence of success was almost non-existant, could hardly be ignored ~ And while the withdrawl of NJG 2 from Europe may have represented a significant error, one compounded by the fact that no similar unit was to replace it in harassing British bomber bases, it was also true that the Gruppe had already suffered significant losses, with over 100 pilots killed, wounded and missing, up until that time...

Also, by the early 1944 stage of the War, Allied planners were gearing the Air War towards "Operation Overlord" and whilst USAAF daylight & Bomber Command night attacks continued, there were changes in the targets to facilitate a smooth invasion on D-Day. There were for example B-26 Marauder night attacks, briefly, and the Nachtjagd mis-identified them as British "Wellington" bombers and in turn, the Marauder aircrews mis-identified their Bf-110 attackers as Me-410's. - The Me-410B-2's were used particularly as fast photo- reconnaissance over Britain, but others were also used as schnell bombers, as too with the low, fast, bombed-up Fw-190's. -It was a busy time, as the V-1 attacks had started and this not only required heavy, medium & light bombers to hit the launch sites as soon as they were discovered, but also fighters & nightfighters to track and shoot them down as they came over the Channel.

Operation Steinbock, also known as the "Little Blitz" was a Luftwaffe offensive against London which began with 447 sorties on 21/22 January 1944. It was a battle where the Luftwaffe began using "window" against the Allies and sporadically raids were carried out on through D-Day but the Allied Nightfighter force had by then been divided into the ADGB (Air Defence of Great Britain), and the 2nd TAF (Tactical Air Force) which crossed the Channel & operated from continental airfields as they were overun. The ADGB took care of any incoming Luftwaffe.

Operation Gisela was a desperate offensive started by the Nachtjagd on the night of 3/4 March 1945 which did succeed in shooting down over 20 returning RAF bombers, but the Allied Bomber offensive against Germany continued on unabated, as gradually the Nachtjagd was worn-down by the shear weight of the Allied forces...

Cheers, hope that adds another perspective...

 

[aspetuck1453]

Appreciate the additional information.

 

[pbehn]

http://yorkshireairmuseum.org/about/raf-elvington-a-brief-history/

from the site above

On the night of 3rd March 1945, German night-fighters launched Operation Gisela against the 450 heavy bombers of 4, 5 & 6 Groups RAF Bomber Command returning from a raid on the synthetic oil plants at Kamen, in the Ruhr and the Dortmund Canal. At around midnight 100 Junkers 88's crossed the English coast from the Thames to Yorkshire and infiltrated the returning bomber streams. Two hours later at least 24 bombers had been shot down and a further 20 damaged.

Having shot down two Halifax bombers of 158 Squadron returning to RAF Lissett near Bridlington, Hauptman Johann Dreher of 13 Nachtjagdeschwader Gruppen (Night fighter destroyer group), in his Junkers 88G turned to attack the French Air Force Halifax's landing at Elvington. The runway lights were switched off and all aircraft ordered (in French) to divert to other airfields. It was 1:50am and as the alarms sounded, Capitaine Notelle's Halifax pulled sharply up and, narrowly escaping, headed north towards RAF Croft. He was stalked by another German night fighter and was hit 3 times before crash landing near Darlington. All the crew survived. Meanwhile, Dreher's Junkers 88 continued to attack RAF Elvington, strafing the road and a passing taxi. Circling round for another attack, it clipped a tree and crashed into Dunnington Lodge farmhouse, killing all 5 crew; the farmer, Richard Moll; his wife and mother. A black cross can be seen by the roadside in front of the farmhouse near the Museum on the road back to York. The war ended just 9 weeks later and this is probably the scene of the very last Luftwaffe aircraft crash on British soil.

 

[Erich]

ah from an old thread I replied to. yes Unternehmen Gisela was the most so-called successful inturder mission in 45 though there were another 3 much smaller scale over Britain with very limited success. also much earlier the German Nachtjagd was on the prowl in 1941-42 over England in all Black Ju 88C-6's.