Operation Bodenplatte

[Thumpalumpacus]

I came across this video this evening, a discussion from a couple of years ago conducted by the the National WWII Museum in New Orleans, about Op Bodenplatte. The presenters being American, it does have an America-centric view of the engagement, which is a shame because the RAF played a goodly part in it too. At any rate, I found it interesting and informative, and hope y'all do as well:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip3S_EBI6nY&ab_channel=TheNationalWWIIMuseum

 

[hw97karbine]

Some shots of the aftermath of Bodenplatte

 

[Checkertail20]

I remember this being on an episode of Dogfights back when the History Channel did shows about history. An interesting battle.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I remember this being on an episode of Dogfights back when the History Channel did shows about history. An interesting battle.

It's a shame what has become of "History" Channel. I remember watching it in the 80s and early 90s where the narratives were much more apt and the footage, though mish-mashed (there's that B-24 losing a wing, always shown when talking about 8th AF, that was actually shot down in SWPA), was still on-point.

At some point I need to go rewatch The World at War. Rehashed footage in it as well, but the writing and narration by Sir Olivier was, in my memory, by far the best.

 

[Snautzer01]

At some point I need to go rewatch The World at War. Rehashed footage in it as well, but the writing and narration by Sir Olivier was, in my memory, by far the best.

Here here. I still like the intro.. the voice some lines then the music.

 

[Snautzer01]

And interviews with people that were there not to forget.

The interviewees included Sir Max Aitken, Joseph Lawton Collins, Mark Clark, Jock Colville, Karl Dönitz, James "Jimmy" Doolittle, Lawrence Durrell, Lord Eden of Avon, Mitsuo Fuchida, Adolf Galland, Minoru Genda, W. Averell Harriman, Sir Arthur Harris, Alger Hiss, Brian Horrocks, Traudl Junge, Toshikazu Kase, Curtis LeMay, Vera Lynn, Hasso von Manteuffel, Bill Mauldin, John J. McCloy, Lord Mountbatten of Burma, Sir Richard O'Connor, J. B. Priestley, Saburo Sakai, Albert Speer, James Stewart, Charles Sweeney, Paul Tibbets, Walter Warlimont, Takeo Yoshikawa and historian Stephen Ambrose.

The World at War - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[special ed]

I have DVDs of Dogfights & Victory at Sea. The Victory at Sea music was Best, "And Now"....

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have DVDs of Dogfights & Victory at Sea. The Victory at Sea music was Best, "And Now"....

I'm just going to youtube VaS.

 

[monstrok]

I came across this video this evening, a discussion from a couple of years ago conducted by the the National WWII Museum in New Orleans, about Op Bodenplatte. The presenters being American, it does have an America-centric view of the engagement, which is a shame because the RAF played a goodly part in it too. At any rate, I found it interesting and informative, and hope y'all do as well:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip3S_EBI6nY&ab_channel=TheNationalWWIIMuseum

As an observer of the history of Operation Bodenplatte, this is the first I've heard of a major RAF involvement during that day. The floor is yours! Bases, units and engagements would be appreciated (with sources, of course). My wish is to learn from others that have information that is not commonly known. Thanks!

 

[GrauGeist]

As an observer of the history of Operation Bodenplatte, this is the first I've heard of a major RAF involvement during that day. The floor is yours! Bases, units and engagements would be appreciated (with sources, of course). My wish is to learn from others that have information that is not commonly know. Thanks!

The RAF was represented by the Second Tactical Air Force.
Units under it's command were No. 2 Group RAF, No. 83 Expeditionary Air Group RAF and No. 84 Group RAF.

There were also other Air Forces serving under the RAF at the time, such as Polish, Canadian and New Zealand.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As an observer of the history of Operation Bodenplatte, this is the first I've heard of a major RAF involvement during that day. The floor is yours! Bases, units and engagements would be appreciated (with sources, of course). My wish is to learn from others that have information that is not commonly know. Thanks!

I didn't say "major", I said "goodly". RAF fields were ten or so of the targeted airfields (though not all were actually hit) which the video I posted rather underplays. Manrho and Putz are listed in the sources of articles I've found online, but I'm no expert.

Again, I didn't make any point that the RAF was the "major" Allied involvement. I only bemoaned their absence of mention in the video I reposted.

 

[monstrok]

The RAF was represented by the Second Tactical Air Force.
Units under it's command were No. 2 Group RAF, No. 83 Expeditionary Air Group RAF and No. 84 Group RAF.

There were also other Air Forces serving under the RAF at the time, such as Polish, Canadian and New Zealand.

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

[GrauGeist]

Thanks for the quick reply!

You're welcome.

The 2TAF operated a variety of of aircraft, from bombers to fighters, but the type that really had an impact, were their Typhoons, which, like the American's P-47, scoured the Germans with relentless ground attack.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

There are quite a few books on Operation Bodenplatte, probably starting with chapter III of Werner Gerbig's Six Months to Oblivion, published in 1973, he gives the list of airfields attacked as, where 1 is successful 2 is moderately successful, 3 not or intermittently attacked, 4 attacked by mistake or opportunity, no effect. A = American, B = British, Y = American in the following list

Antwerp-Deurne B-70, 3
Asch, Y-29, 2
Brussels-Evere, B-56, 1
Brussels-Grimbergen, B-60, 2
Brussels-Melsbrock, B-58, 1
Eindhoven, B-78, 1
Ghent/St Denis Westrem, B-61, 1
Gilze-Rijen, B-77, 4
Heesch, B-88, 4
Knocke, 4
Le Culot, A-89, 3
Mladegem, B-65, 1
Metz-Frescaty,Y-34, 2
Ophoven, Y-43, 4
St Trond, A-92, 2
Volkel, B-80, 3
Woensdrecht, B-79, 4
Ursel, B-67, 3

And probably Beauvechain, Helmond, Grave.

The RAF took more losses on the ground than the USAAF, how many varies between references. Apart from non operational types, like Ansons, Prince Bernhard's personal Beech 18, non combat units were present, the aircraft ferry units, many airfields had damaged aircraft from other forces, like Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force, most awaiting repair, some write off, some repairable became write offs. While the allies took losses on their own offensive operations that day, as well as in the air defending the airfields. A widely quoted figure is 127 RAF lost, the USAAF lost around 42 P-47 at Metz which accounts for most of its losses on the ground.

 

[frankv]

My father was a teenager on a farm in Venray, Netherlands. He remembered Bodenplatte... Bf-109s roared across the farm at treetop height, heading west. A little later, they came back, hotly pursued by Spitfires. Which surprised me... I wouldn't have thought Spitfires would get airborne quickly enough to catch the 109s. Presumably some All8ed pilots had drawn the short straw and had taken off at dawn as defensive patrols.

 

[Checkertail20]

This plan sounded like a good idea but not very well executed. The Luftwaffe lost a lot of planes due to enemy fire and if not for that we may be telling a different story about what happened on January 1, 1945 at Asch, Belgium.

 

[GrauGeist]

This plan sounded like a good idea but not very well executed. The Luftwaffe lost a lot of planes due to enemy fire and if not for that we may be telling a different story about what happened on January 1, 1945 at Asch, Belgium.

The Luftwaffe actually lost a considerable amount of aircraft to friendly fire.

The operation's secrecy was a bit too tight and Wehrmacht, Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe ground elements were not in the loop.

 

[Barrett]

It's a shame what has become of "History" Channel. I remember watching it in the 80s and early 90s where the narratives were much more apt and the footage, though mish-mashed (there's that B-24 losing a wing, always shown when talking about 8th AF, that was actually shot down in SWPA), was still on-point.

At some point I need to go rewatch The World at War. Rehashed footage in it as well, but the writing and narration by Sir Olivier was, in my memory, by far the best.

We shot the last Dogfights segments in 2007, second year of the series, with a farewell episode. Didn't matter that we were the "History" Channel's no. 1 program both years. The board hired the gal who chickified A&E, hence such "history" fare as Ice Rd Truckers, American Eats, and Swamp People. So those of us who know and care about history just call THC "the channel."

 

[Checkertail20]

We shot the last Dogfights segments in 2007, second year of the series, with a farewell episode. Didn't matter that we were the "History" Channel's no. 1 program both years. The board hired the gal who chickified A&E, hence such "history" fare as Ice Rd Truckers, American Eats, and Swamp People. So those of us who know and care about history just call THC "the channel."

The reason THC and other channels started doing shows like Ice Road Truckers, Jersey Shore, Alaskan Bush People, etc was that they are cheap to make.

 

[Jabberwocky]

As an observer of the history of Operation Bodenplatte, this is the first I've heard of a major RAF involvement during that day. The floor is yours! Bases, units and engagements would be appreciated (with sources, of course). My wish is to learn from others that have information that is not commonly known. Thanks!

RAF fighter squadrons made claims for 65 Luftwaffe fighters destroyed during Operation Bodenplatte, as well as three probably destroyed and 15 damaged. Of the individual units, 308 Squadron claimed 13, while 401 Sqdn claimed 8 1/2, 403 Sqdn claimed 8 and 412 Sqdn claimed 7.

USAAF fighter squadrons claimed 66 destroyed, four probables and 15 damaged.

RAF fighter losses were 54 Spitfires, 5 Mustangs, 25 Typhoons and a single Tempest. 9 of those losses seem to have been in the air.

USAAF losses seem to have been 23 P-51s and 6 P-47s, with 8 if those lost in aerial combat.

Numbers are from Vol 5 of Foreman's Fighter Command War Diaries.

So, if claims and losses are anything to go by, the RAF seems to have been just as busy on 1st January 1945 as the USAAF.