Otto Kittel's Fw 190s

[Wurger]

do you have the RLM for that one?

Right now I have the JG 54 'Grunherz' and Focke Wolf FW 190 from 1939 - 1945 books, do you have a book that you recommend I pick up?


The gray camo thats on that plane, was there a pattern or was it just painted in haste? If a pattern, what pattern was it?

It is very hard to recommend a particular book that could cover all things concerning Fw190A.So I can't help you with that, sorry.

Concerning the camo.... of course profiles aren't the the main source for that. These are the general clue on how a plane was painted.And these should be threated in the way only. In the case the camo pattern seems to be the RLM74/75/76 one.But I think it was the RLM75/83/76 as the RLM74 was replaced by the new RLM83 or RLM 82 paints in the mid of 1944. Also mottling could be made with RLM81. In the Kagero book about Fw190A vol.II. I have found profile of A-9 from 2./JG54 January 1945 coloured just with the RLM75/83/76 scheme. Also the white spots were added to the camo but the main pattern was of the mantioned above. What is interesting the caption says it was A-9 Wurger but not A-8. The russian profile says A-9 for the Black 1.....interesting doesn't it.


And....BTW.... the Fw190A-8 Werk Nummer 681497 "White 11" was from 5/JG4 ( but not from 5/JG54) and was captured by US troops during the Bodenplatte operation when flown by Gefr. Walter Wagner. The plane was hit by AA and force-landed at St.Trond airfild in France.The camo scheme for the Wurger was the standard one RLM74/75/76.

 

[stona]

..BTW.... the Fw190A-8 Werk Nummer 681497 "White 11" was from 5/JG4 ( but not from 5/JG54) and was captured by US troops during the Bodenplatte operation when flown by Gefr. Walter Wagner.

Quite correct, my typo, apologies, can't blame that on my memory! That Russian profile doesn't have any of the later (81,82,83) colours in it , of course it is only a profile.
Also RLM 81 and 82 were originally specifically to replace RLM 70 and 71. Orders exist for the combinations 82/70 and 81/71 to be used whilst stocks of the old colour lasted.
They were of course used as Wurger shows but neither were originally intended as a replacement for 74.Have a look at some of these to see just how out of control things got for the Luftwaffe towards the end.
Late War Luftwaffe Fighter Camouflage Part Eight - Fighter Profiles by Chris Royston
Cheers Steve

 

[Wurger]

I thouught it was your typo that's way I added the short note.



Concerning the paint camo scheme. The basic one was the RLM74/75/76 at that time and replaced the RLM70/71/65 one used earlier. Because the grey camo pattern wasn't quite suitable for the Eastern Front , the non-standard paintings appeared.Especially for JG51 and JG54 units.In many cases their aircraft were painted in a few different ways, for instance fuselages were painted wholly or up to a half of the sides with the new RLM81/82/83 set.The standard camo pattern made in a factory could be seen partially often. Applying a such numbers of colours ( especially that these could be of different tonalities although these were of the same RLM numbers) also could cause that planes could be of a few odd schemes.

 

[Ikerus]

based on the photo of Black 1, do we think its an A8 or an A9?


since this one is grey, would the cross that is on the bottom of the wing with black and white, for the top would it be just like the side and be just black?

 

[stona]

Edit - Ooops,sorry wrong piccy. Yes the simplified outline cross.
Steve

 

[stona]

Here is the piccy I was looking for of a couple of chaps spraying the white version of this cross on a wing.

Steve

 

[Crimea_River]

Paging Erich....

 

[Wurger]

based on the photo of Black 1, do we think its an A8 or an A9?

To be honest I haven't seen that pic. The main difference between A-8 and A-9 in their semblance was the bulged cockpit conopy type of A-9 and the propeller of larger wooden prop blades VDM9-12157H3. However a few A-9s was equipped with the flat type of the cockpit conopy. So it is quite hard to say which one of these it could be if the Fw190A had the flat type of the hood. Unless the propeller could be seen.

 

[tango35]

The Aircraft of Oberleutnant Kittel 2./JG 54 was a Fw 190 A-8 WkNr. 690282.
The main difference between an A-8 and an A-9 were not the bulbed canopy ( because you can see them on late A-8 models, too ) or the VDM-propeller ( because many of the A-9 flew with the standard propeller ). The main difference were that the A-9 were equipped with the BMW 801 F or BMW 801 TS with 2000 hp and a longer Panzerring ( the reason were the bigger oil cooler for the engine )

Thomas

 

[Ikerus]

Thanks Thomas for that info.

 

[N4521U]

Look at That! Isn't that an airless spray gun????????? Hand held mask, had to be pretty rough and with soft edges!!! Verrrrry interesting!