Otto Schulz's Bf109 F-4 Trop Jg27

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by rochie, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    ok as i cannot build at the minute i thought i'd get stuck into researching subjects for the kits in my stash.

    so after reading Kittyhawk Pilot a while ago i need info on Otto Schulz's Bf 109 F-4 trop the day he was killed by Eddie Edwards of 260 Sqn RAF.
    i plan on doing Edwards Kittyhawk III FR350 but only after everyone has forgotten Andy's amazing build of the same subject :lol: !

    so here's where i am so far !

    Otto Schulz was killed on 17 June 1942 after shooting down the Hurricane flown by Wally Conrad of 274 Sqn.
    Schulz was in the habit of strafing his victims downed machines until they were set on fire(presumably to deny them the chance to repair them) and he was doing just that as Eddie Edwards was returning home at high speed and low altitude saw Him and with a slight change of direction hit the 109 and it went straight into the ground as it dived on Conrad's Hurricane.
    Edwards didnt look back and did not even put in a claim as he did not even see the Hurricane on the ground.

    it wasn't until Michel Lavinge was researching Kittyhawk pilot that it was discovered who was flying the Kittyhawk that day !

    i have read that Schulz was flying F-4 W.Nr 10271 marked <ll and now would like to know what the paint scheme would have looked like ?
    i have collected a few profiles of Schulz's 109 some marked yellow 2 ?
    see below from the internet

    BF109F4_Stab II-JG27_Schulz_wSW.png

    Bf-109F4Trop-Stab-II.JG27-(II+-Otto-Schulz-WNr-10271-El-Gazala-1941-01.jpg

    stocky_vs_otto.jpg

    skyhawk1_161.jpg

    Bf.109.F.16x.jpg

    bf109f4.jpg

    Claes Sundin has <ll with a yellow lower cowl ?
    a bar on the rear fuselage over painted with the white theater band and a half white half black spinner ?

    what about the kill markings on the rudder, black or white ?
     
  2. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    #2 stona, Jan 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
    Schulz was assigned to Stab II./JG 27 shortly before he was killed in June 1942. He held the rank of Oberleutnant at the time of his death. The aircraft in which he was shot down was supposedly marked <+ which is more likely than the one he is sat in and on which the first profile is based. I don't think that is his aircraft.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  3. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Cheers Steve.

    Any thoughts on the paint scheme for <+ ?
    I'm hoping for a plain RLM 78/79 with white theatre markings so might look for another choice !
     
  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Hi Karl. Thanks for the nod on my Edwards build. For reference on my build, I used another book by Michel Levigne called " Kittyhawks over the Sands: The Canadians the RCAF Americans". This is an excellent book and pretty rare but fortunately my local library has a copy. I'll take a wander over there and thumb through it again as I'm pretty sure there were several pics of Schulz's machine.
     
  5. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    I haven't found a picture of that aircraft and I believe the markings come from the loss report. Someone else might have details of it, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't in a standard tropical scheme and theatre markings by this time.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  6. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Cheers Andy, that would be great.

    Cheers Steve.
     
  7. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Have a pic that is reportedly < + certainly a portion of a single chevron is visible as are a few Black victory markings on the rudder, Schulz is in the cockpit. taken from the 10 o'clock position sunlight/glare washes out the colours along the fuselage but it is most likely as Steve says Tropical scheme.

    His "2" carries 44 victories in Black on the rudder with roundels above each, except 7,8 and 9 which have russian stars.
     
  8. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Wayne.

    Any idea on sqn/staffel badges ?

    So I'm looking at the top profile I posted for the paint scheme and theatre markings but with black kill markings and single chevron, ok so far ?
     
  9. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Still got the question re the position of the lion badge in the photo, compared to the profile.
     
  10. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    If you are doing <+ that was an aircraft of Stab II./JG 27 and the emblem carried on that flight's Bf 109 Fs in Africa was the lion with a bullet heading for his arse ( known as 'verplasterte Albion', plastered Albion).
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  11. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff Steve.
    Can get that on an EagleCal sheet.
    EAG48130_1.jpg
     
  12. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    On that third profile you can see the emblem of II./JG27 on the nose. It's the 'Berlin bear' the coat of arms of the City of Berlin and was applied on both sides, at least on some, maybe all, aircraft of the Gruppe.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  13. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if that's the rig he's Sat in in the pic I posted ?
     
  14. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Karl, I won't get to the library til Friday.
     
  15. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    no rush Andy, just whenever you end up going that way and have the time to pop in !
     
  16. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Hi Karl

    I went and checked out Lavigne's book and have a bit more for you. In that book is included the first picture below, which he purports to be taken in May 1942 showing Schulz standing in front of the aircraft he was shot down in. Evident is the single chevron in front of the cross. Now, Levigne also says that the markings were "< + -", not "< +". The dash is also evident in the profile of <II + - above.

    fotonachlass_roedel10.jpg

    Here's another pic of <II not yet posted.

    Bf-109F4Trop-Stab-II.JG27-(II+-Otto-Schulz-WNr-10271-El-Gazala-1941-02.jpg
     
  17. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    It's entirely possible that the aircraft did have the 'gruppe' bar. Maybe he is making a reasonable assumption as the marking was usually carried on II./JG 27 aircraft.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  18. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Picture of his White 2 with victory bars. E-Bay shot posted at LEMB:

    schulz 109.jpg
     
  19. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Haven't seen that first shot before, good stuff Andy!

    And in the image I have of < + - there is no lion emblem on the fuselage side, I forgot to add that in my earlier post. it also doesn't show a II gruppe bar either as that part of the fuselage is not visible, but it was likely there.
    Sorry I can't post it but it was given to me for my own personal use and not for posting, I respect his wishes.
     
  20. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks Andy.

    No probes Wayne.

    What do you guys think about the yellow lower cowl ?

    What about the demarcation of the upper and lower colours, mid fuselage or lower down ?
     
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