Out of the Big Three WW2 bombers (B-17, B-24, Lancaster), was the Flying Fortress the most redundant?

Geoffrey Sinclair · May 6, 2023

As of mid May 1943 the 8th AF had 4 B-17 and 2 B-24 groups, by late June that had become 13 to 2. The B-24 groups were then non operational or in the Mediterranean until the second week in September, their return made the ratio 16 B-17 to 4 B-24, then came another B-24 detachment in the second half of September. The detached 8th AF B-24 groups all returned to Britain by 4 October 1943, leaving the force at 16 B-17 and 4 B-24 groups, 9 B-17 in the 1st, 4 B-24 in the 2nd and 7 B-17 in the 3rd divisions. The ratio became 17 to 4 on 25 November, 17 to 5 on 13 December, 17 to 6 on 16 December, 17 to 7 on 22 December, 18 to 7 on 24 December, where it stayed until 5 February 1944, when it became 19 to 8, the strength at the start of Big Week on 20 February. The ratio became 20 to 8 the next day and 20 to 9 on 24 February.

The 3rd Bombardment Division had 9 B-17 groups for big week, received its first B-24 group on 4 April and ran its first B-24 mission on 7 May, ending up with 9 B-17 and 5 B-24 on D-Day.

gruad · May 8, 2023

Shortround6 said:
For me there is just too much unknown.
I am not saying the aluminum is better, not even close, but even in well know photos we don't know the duration of time, even in some photo sequences.
We don't know the actual flame (or hot gas ) temperature at the impingement area.

We can see the size of the fire blowing over the outside of the wing but that doesn't tell us the size of the fire inside the wing structure or what the airflow (hot gas/flame travel) inside the wing compartment/s was like.

And we haven't even gotten to at what point the wing spar/structure can not handle the aerodynamic load and starts to fold up. How fast, what altitude, what angle of attack is the wing, what side load? all of which may take a few seconds or less than a second?

And if the majority of the crew cannot successfully exit the aircraft in the time available does it matter what the wing spar was made out of?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but thank you very much for the USA support in defeating the time it was called Adolph Hitler

I support every American service man that gave their lives on behalf of us that I could be here now.

gruad · May 8, 2023

drgondog said:
Sadly somewhat true. Before there enough B-24 BG in 8th AF, the early ones (44th and 93rd fall 1942) had to fly formation with B-17 BG. The best envelope for B-24 is 180 IAS at 18000-22000 feet, behind B-17s at 150 IAS at 25,000 feet. The Davis airfoil on B-24 was low drag but also lower max CL, making it more difficult to both fly and Manuever (stay in tight formation) at 25K.

Result, fly low and behind the B-17s in combat box formations. Right in strike zone of Fw 190/Bf 109 and 88mm flak. 8th AF didn't get enough BG equipped with B-24s until after Big Week to operate as independent Task Force. Kepner's favorite Fighter Wing, the 65th FW, was largely tasked for 2nd BD after D-Day. It was comprised of the 4th, 56th, 355th, 361st and 479th. Like the other two FW's it had P-38, P-47 and P-51 FG's able to perform Penetration, Target and Withdrawal escort via natural (range based) Relay system some what self contained.

My first Chief Desgn in airframe biz was a former 24 driver in 44th BG. He had noticable big forearms to which he attributed 'flying formation at 25K in the early days'

My mother was evacuated from the frogmore sands and moved to salcombe in the west of England

She told me of her own mother's thoughts but she had six daughters that were going to be raped by German soldiers when they came over
God bless every American amen that died or flew was defending us country now God bless them

Out of the Big Three WW2 bombers (B-17, B-24, Lancaster), was the Flying Fortress the most redundant?

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