my uncle Cpt Joe Hilsman was in April 1945 a Thompson carrying MD with 5th Rangers,
P-47N Thunderbolt vs. F4U-4 Corsair - Which was superior?
- Thread starter DAVIDICUS
- Start date
drgondog
Major
I do - the P-51D-5-NA 44-14434 OSZ Maria was belly landed. Sent to Service Group Hanger and modified for two place.
The primary changes were to remove the 85 gallon fuselage tank, Install a standard P-51 seat, provide for oxygen mask connector and valve to obtain O2 from tanks, Cut Canopy in two and attach latch as well as release for aft canopy section. Anecdotally, this was a 'bootleg/after hours project' and I do not have the engineering records for 355th FG to confirm 1st flight date - but March 1945 is approximate.
The first two seat conversion was also performed on a WW 357FS P-51B 43-6 OD-D. It had a Malcom Hood back seat and used for Clobber College intro to ETO ops for relacement pilots.
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![357 OSZ Maria_10sep1944 [kyburz-randall].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/790/790908-347465ffa428eeee1dc87fa5b240c7e5.jpg?hash=NHRl_6Qo7u)
drgondog
Major
I may have gotten Dachau confused with Buchenwald - but maybe one of us was confused when he interviewd for the article.
He was at Vanderbilt U at same time as my father, although they did not meet until 1945, two years afer my father married his youngest sister.
I stated Cpt, 5th Rangers. Attached is his picture. Note railroad trcks on shoulder, Ranger patch upper left arm
He didn't speak of 'picking up' souveniers or reparations, but he still had an MG 42 and MP 44 and two Lugers and a Walther that he smuggled home. Still had them last time I saw him in 1996. I was not overly close to my cousins but I loved him.
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Barrett
Staff Sergeant
The Corsair could engage in air combat anywhere on earth, including almost anywhere on the 70 percent of the planet's surface covered by water!
The P-47could not, of course, although I knew a former F-8 Crusader pilot who enjoyed making unusual models. They included a carrier-capable razorback T-Bolt!
Barrett
Staff Sergeant
Bill, a few sidebars:
I may have gotten Dachau confused with Buchenwald - but maybe one of us was confused when he interviewd for the article.
He was at Vanderbilt U at same time as my father, although they did not meet until 1945, two years afer my father married his youngest sister.
I stated Cpt, 5th Rangers. Attached is his picture. Note railroad trcks on shoulder, Ranger patch upper left arm
He didn't speak of 'picking up' souveniers or reparations, but he still had an MG 42 and MP 44 and two Lugers and a Walther that he smuggled home. Still had them last time I saw him in 1996. I was not overly close to my cousins but I loved him.
In 1964 during a cross-country train trip (I was much younger then) I struck up a conversation with a D-Day vet on or about the 20th anniversary. He said throughout training "they" were told that We have The Best of Everything. "I believed that up to the high tide mark on Omaha Beach where I realized our MGs went rat-a-tat and theirs went BRRRRRRT.
I have some trigger time on a coupla 42s. Bipod technique matters for dispersion downrange. The 1200 rpm cyclic was one reason why German infantry squads were the reverse of ours: We used MGs to support the riflemen. They used riflemen to support the MGs--according to competent sources.
BUT
The MP.44 (aka "Schmeisser") remains well up my Ballistic Bucket List.
drgondog
Major
I never fired either but do have time on M2 and the MG42 knock off - the M-60. IIRC the ROF for the M-60 was about 1/2 MG42.
Barrett, there are dealers all over te country that spnsor 'shoot a thons' with various automatic weapons (you have to buy the ammo from them of course). Offhand I don't know the names of the events but they are nomally arond the beginning of hunting season.
Perhaps an interesting anecdote about my uncle Joe. He mentioned that the "Ranger Brotherhood" extended to patching up some of his friends that couldn't go to a hospital for gunshot wounds - and Never agonized over whether he was doing the right thing, He knew what the 'right thing' was.
GregP
Major
I had a friend, J. Curtiss Earle, in Phoenix, AZ who was an automatic arms dealer. We shot an MG42 once when he took it out for a prospective buyer to shoot. I got to try it for two bursts. It was very easy to hit something a log way off and the rate of fire was high compared with most MGs I have heard. My friend had maybe 10 different MGs out that day.
After the day was over, I wasn't so sure a high rate of fire was the best option. It seemed to me the better option was a slower rate of fire and take your time to hit the target. Yes, the higher rate of fire could put more ammo on target, but it also puts more ammo off target if you miss and the slower rate of fire made the magazines or ammo boxes for crew-served unit last longer. Lasting longer gives the crew or the gunner a bit of time to arrange things so the reload was faster and easier.
It made me realize that a high rate of fire has both plus and minus effects. I'm pretty sure rate of fire is much more important for a fighter aircraft than for an infantry gunner, if only because getting a few hits on a moving, jinking airplane is one place where rate of fire makes a large difference.
After the day was over, I wasn't so sure a high rate of fire was the best option. It seemed to me the better option was a slower rate of fire and take your time to hit the target. Yes, the higher rate of fire could put more ammo on target, but it also puts more ammo off target if you miss and the slower rate of fire made the magazines or ammo boxes for crew-served unit last longer. Lasting longer gives the crew or the gunner a bit of time to arrange things so the reload was faster and easier.
It made me realize that a high rate of fire has both plus and minus effects. I'm pretty sure rate of fire is much more important for a fighter aircraft than for an infantry gunner, if only because getting a few hits on a moving, jinking airplane is one place where rate of fire makes a large difference.
As I understand it, the Germans on D-Day ran out of ammunition on their rapid firing MGs despite being in defensive positions with a lot of ammunition. A soldier assaulting from a boat would run out even quicker since they only had what was carried.
drgondog
Major
I heard the same, That said, a LOT of rounds 'connected' at Omaha Beach.
I thank the gods I was not involved in anything like that in my life. From what I understand of the planning, the worst case scenario saw heavier losses than those suffered at Omaha on all the landing grounds.
special ed
1st Lieutenant
- 7,136
- May 13, 2018
We were allowed to fire the BAR, M-14 (not full auto-causes excessive barrel wear) and the M-60. My favorite is the BAR, chunka-chunka-chunka, because it goes right where you point it. They all used the same ammo as my assigned M-1 Garand.
My American grandfather was a combat engineer who landed on Omaha.
I've been to Normandy several times (including the 50th anniversary). The cemetery at Omaha is one of the most solemn places I have ever visited. I hope to take my sons there one day so they can see it themselves.
Pics I took at the cemetery on our last visit.
The D-Day invasion and subsequent Normandy Campaign was a meat grinder for all sides. One of my wife's grandfather's brothers fell in Normandy and is buried at one of the German cemeteries there. He lost several brothers on the East Front as well, but they are still missing.
This is his grave in Normandy. We laid some flowers for her Grandfather.
drgondog
Major
I literally teared up each time I visited - same at Matingly and Liege.
drgondog
Major
I agree BAR. Loved to shoot it, but carry it? not so much. I also liked the M-14 better than the Mouse Gun.
I actually liked the M-1 best. 12 rounds lighter and I never screwed up my thumb. Have one in 7.62x51 but my eyes are not up to the accuracy it is capable of. I reloaded and got <1 to1 1/2" groups when I was 50.. lucky to get three now. Think the pacemaker is the problem more than the wyes.
Same
When I was in HS, and in JROTC, my battalion would go to Saint-Avold, France to the Lorraine Military Cemetery to lay a wreath at the memorial. 10,489 US soldiers are buried there.
I don't know how true it is but I've read of one MG42 gunner who shot off 12,000 rounds during the D day landings, they would have needed barrels as well as ammo, again I don't know how true it is but wooden practise rounds were in the belts also.
I saw a documentary that involved an interview with a German gunner from a beach "pill box" they ran out of barrels and ammunition and the support crews were knackered carrying barrels ammunition and water to cool the barrels. The pill box itself was full of spent cases.
We can't imagine what either side experienced on that day.
Uncle Joe has liberated himself a very nice German Barnac Leica in that top photo!
drgondog
Major
That picture was taken near Gablingen approximately September 1945. Might have been librated with cash - or services, he was a very good surgeon by reputation.
