P39D-1 vs F4F-4 Which would you rather be in fighting the Japanese? and Why did the

[Juha]

Ascetically I love this airplane but I have always wondered how much of the P-39/63's rep on the E. Front was due to hype. The Russians needed all the help they could get and for a Russian pilot to be critical could have meant a lot of trouble for him.

And the US used lend lease for all the good publicity they could ring out of it. If we were going to give away fighters why not ones that were conveniently in production and we didn't really want?

No doubt the Soviets used the planes with some success - but so did we, not only in the Pacific but in the Med.

Soviet Union wanted as many P-39s they could get, they thought it was clearly better than P-40, US and GB pilots mostly had an opposite oppinion. IIRC 3 out of the 5 Soviet top aces got most of their kills while flying P-39.

Juha

 

[oldcrowcv63]

To me, its simple. The early, primary confrontations in the Pacific were either CV vs CV duels or defending bases against attacks by high altitude bombers and their escorts. In both cases the F4F emerges as the generally successful platform. In the first, the P-39 is not an option. In the second, the P-39, like its USAAF P-40 stable mate lacks the high altitude performance to engage the attacking forces, on too many occasions. When payload or circumstances forced the IJ raiders to approach at altitudes below 27,000 feet, the P-40 could do somewhat better. But the F4F provided satisfactory service in both scenarios. That's my take. The P-40 and P-39 simply weren't effective options.

 

[gjs238]

Do you have the comparable losses for the Japanese against this fighter group?

Do you think a well trained group of pilots that used the P39's strengths and knew the Japanese aircrafts weaknesses could have made this plane a winner?

Or...If the AVG had used P-39's, how would the AVG performance compare to the historical record with P-40's?

 

[gjs238]

Soviet Union wanted as many P-39s they could get, they thought it was clearly better than P-40, US and GB pilots mostly had an opposite oppinion. IIRC 3 out of the 5 Soviet top aces got most of their kills while flying P-39.

Juha

Wonder what German opinions from the Eastern Front are, P-39 vs. P-40.

 

[Shortround6]

Timing is everything. Early P-39s were maintenance nightmare. Most everything was electric. Given the primitive conditions the AVG were operating under it is doubtful if they could have kept as high a percentage of aircraft in the air as with the P-40s. Early 37mm gun set up was almost useless.
Later P-39s got better and even under Soviet conditions they may have an acceptable serviceability record. Different empty case chute solved a lot of the 37mm problems.

Russians did like the P-39 better but they also ripped out the wing guns and lightened the plane.

A Dec 1941 to late 1942 P-39 isn't quite the same as a 1943 P-39 for a lot of reasons than have little to do with the exact model of engine installed.

 

[Conslaw]

Some of the answers regarding the P-39 vs. the Tainan Zeros will likely be answered in the forthcoming book, Eagles of the Southern Sky, about the Tainan naval air group in New Guinea. According to the authors' website, it is supposed to be available in late October. OurCompany.com

 

[CobberKane]

I think the P39 pretty much suffered the same defficiencies as avery other early war US fighter when compared to the Zero; it was outclimbed, out-accelerated and out-turned over the first ninety percent of it performance envelope. No doubt above 300mph it did handle better than the Zero but it lacked the power to maintain those speeds in a dogfight without constantly pointing its nose at terra firma, and as it couldn't get to the altitudes the Zero could that one advantage was generally only useful in running for home - and hoping you had enough altitude to extend away. I have a pilots account of flying a P39 in the pacific where he talks about having to constantly pump the fuel primer to keep the plane above ten thousand feet. For a long time the P39s at Guadalcanal didn't have oxygen equipment, effectively limiting them to 12000ft. Superior dive performance is not much of an offensive advantage if your opponents are always above you.
The F4F was also outperformed by the zero, but it could operate at higher altitudes than the P39 and therefore had a chance of getting above the Japanese fighters and using its superior dive performance offensively. Being higher also meant the F4F had a better chance of being bounced by Zeros and, if they were bounced, a lot more vertical space to use in diving away, either to head for home or extend, turn and re-engage.