Pinnacle of achievement for piston engined aircraft in WWII

Shortround6 said:

• Even the NA-40 prototype of the B-25 went almost 14,000lbs empty. Trying for 14,000lbs empty with a pair of R-2600s might take a bit of doing. You have about 3900lbs just for the bare(dry weight) engines. Even the starters and generators add weight.
• Planes listed had 3-4 man crews and pretty much hand aimed RCMGs so defensive armament isn't going to get much lighter.
• Point is there doesn't seem to be 3-4,000 lbs of empty weight (airframe) to spare OK n any of the small bombers that were made.

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I was thinking along the lines of the Tigercat but with a fuselage like a Mosquito.

In a hypothetical situation where NA had no work I think they could have designed a metal mosquito and if it had Merlin engines probably about the same weight.

pbehn said:

I was thinking along the lines of the Tigercat but with a fuselage like a Mosquito.

In a hypothetical situation where NA had no work I think they could have designed a metal mosquito and if it had Merlin engines probably about the same weight.

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I am absolutely sure they could have come up with a metal Mossie at about the same weight. But Shitferbrains is talking about a 20% lighter airframe and thats a massive jump. Maybe with modern composites or special Luft46 Unobtanium.

Somewhere the weight break downs for a number of air craft was posted. I believe by Neil Stirling.

Here is the thread. Structure weight data and drag analysis.

A Mosquito's wing fuselage and tail weighed under 4000lbs (just under 20% of an all up weight of just under 20,000lbs.)
cutting 800lbs out of that might be a bit unlikely.

Shortround6 said:

Somewhere the weight break downs for a number of air craft was posted. I believe by Neil Stirling.

Here is the thread. Structure weight data and drag analysis.

A Mosquito's wing fuselage and tail weighed under 4000lbs (just under 20% of an all up weight of just under 20,000lbs.)
cutting 800lbs out of that might be a bit unlikely.

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Great post SR, you beat me to it with facts. The mosquito has an element of fable about it, calling it the wooden wonder implies that it ran on tree sap, had nectar in its bamboo oil lines and all electrical cables were made from exotic vines. It is usually described as a lightweight design made from wood, the "lightweight design" is its lack of defensive armament as much as being made of wood. It wasn't made from wood hacked from Sherwood forest is was made from very well chosen laminates. It was the material of choice for DH because you can get curves and profiles that are difficult to achieve with metal. The Mosquito looks like a sports plane and in many ways looks out of place in WW2 because it doesnt have rivets all over the place.

Thanks for giving the data to show that a Mossie 20% lighter made from aluminium needs that special aluminium that weighs as much as fresh air.

pbehn said:

Thanks for giving the data to show that a Mossie 20% lighter made from aluminium needs that special aluminium that weighs as much as fresh air.

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Or modern FEA to make every gram count.

wuzak said:

Or modern FEA to make every gram count.

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There is nothing new under the sun, The de Havilland company made racing planes before the war, how many 1930s bombers were designed with engine cooling inlets in the wing leading edge? Discussion of the Mosquito rarely gets past the fact that it was made of wood, if you could make exactly the same plane out of aluminium it would have been just as revolutionary and successful.