PLEASE OFFER YOUR HONEST OPINIONS...

[DAI PHAN]

Hello all,

I am Dai Phan and I am involved with aviation history all my life. I built model planes, build and fly scale RC planes and collect aviation memorabilia whenever I can. I was elated when I found Ron Cole website where I can get a print and the ACTUAL relic from the crash site of Yamamoto for less than 200 bucks ! I then also ordered a print with a Zero and a relic fragment from the actual a/c. However I stumbled on a thread posted on this forum today about the questionable practice by Ron Cole. Someone even commented if the relics are legit at all ! Some mentioned on how he used others work and called his own. Needless to say. I wonder if my relic is actually what it is but I am NOT saying that is not what it claims. So in your opinion, should I take a chance in ordering more relics from his website? I plan to purchase the entire collection. Thank you so much and I look forward to your reply. Dai

PS: Is there a service where the fragment can be confirmed of its origin or the year of its production?

 

[swampyankee]

I'm not going to say anything negative about Ron Cole, or his business practices. I would, however, say that verifying the provenance of antiquities is very difficult.

 

[DAI PHAN]

Today I received the art print (framed with the relic hot glued outside the glass). My heart is torn between doubting if this IS the actual relic and having the eerie feeling that this piece actually came from an A/C that crashed with all lives on board with Yamamoto being the main target. I may be holding a piece of history that I would never dreamt of having ... Dai

 

[pbehn]

Unless it has a number on it that can be traced back to the Yamamotos aircraft via the manufacturer then it is a fragment.

 

[DAI PHAN]

Unless it has a number on it that can be traced back to the Yamamotos aircraft via the manufacturer then it is a fragment.

The fragment is a multi-layered soft metal that I do not think has the serial number. I do not want to pry it open. However I can remove a piece that can be sent in for analysis. With carbon dating the piece can be traced back. I am NOT doubting RC, I just want to know if the piece is something that did not come from a toy truck. DP

 

[pbehn]

The fragment is a multi-layered soft metal that I do not think has the serial number. I do not want to pry it open. However I can remove a piece that can be sent in for analysis. With carbon dating the piece can be traced back. I am NOT doubting RC, I just want to know if the piece is not something that did not come from a toy truck. DP

Sorry but unless it has a number or is shown in a photo being recovered it is a fragment of metal. Carbon dating proves nothing and there are lots of crashed planes to get fragments from. Why is Yamamotos plane so important anyway?

 

[DAI PHAN]

Sorry but unless it has a number or is shown in a photo being recovered it is a fragment of metal. Carbon dating proves nothing and there are lots of crashed planes to get fragments from. Why is Yamamotos plane so important anyway?

It is the history that I am interested in. Dai

 

[Reegor]

I have never heard of Mr. Cole. But with any such relic, you have to ask "what are the odds," and "by what chain of events was this item recovered and ended up with me?" Who would have recovered parts from the A/C at the time? And whoever they were, you are depending on the honesty and care of everyone it was resold to before it ended up with Mr. Cole. At each stage there would be an incentive to fabricate/lie. Do you know what part of the A/C it was supposedly from? If you look at blueprints, does the design match that location? Have you had the metallurgy evaluated?
On the other hand, you will obviously derive a lot of pleasure from believing that you have a piece of that aircraft. And most likely nobody can prove that you don't. So go ahead and enjoy yourself!

 

[parsifal]

I didn't know this Ron Cole character either. When I googled him, I got this from wiki. Not a great source, buta start.

"Ronald G. Cole is a figure in the militia movement in the united States. He was the founder and leader of the Colorado Light Infantry militia groups in 1993. Cole is the author of the book Sinister Twilight, in which he attempts to explain the Branch Davidian side of the standoff with federal authorities that took place in Waco, Texas in 1993. Cole became a national anti-government figure after the events of the Waco siege.

In 1994, he met with the notorious domestic terrorist Timothy Mcveigh prior to the Oklahoma city bombings. In 1997 at McVeigh's trial, Cole handed out leaflets demanding fair treatment for McVeigh, as well as news releases for the North American Liberation Army. He also spoke to the media about alleged harassment of paramilitary group members by law enforcement.

Also in 1994, Cole was involved in an incident at the site of the destroyed Branch Davidian compound in Waco Texas. A standoff occurred between self-proclaimed leaders of the remnants of the sect over who had control of the property. Cole and another Branch Davidian, Wally Kennett, were accompanying Andrew Hood, a man who had been supportive of the Branch Davidians, to the property. Their party was fired upon by Amo Bishop Roden, the wife of former Davidian leader George Roden who lived in a shack on the site. Roden was charged with felony deadly conduct, and Kennett and Cole were charged with misdemeanor weapons violations.

In 1997 Cole and three other militia members were arrested by federal agents and local officers in response to a warrant alleging they possessed machine guns in their house in Aurora Colorado In 1998 Cole plead guilty in a plea bargain to four federal counts of illegally possessing unregistered firearms. In response Cole said "They're trying to make me look like a terrorist because I criticize the federal government publicly." Lee Hill, a defense attorney who represented the left wing icon Leonard Peltier, said "They made an example of him. He's an idealist who has annoyed the wrong people." Cole was sentenced to 27 months in federal prison and was released in May 1999.

Cole currently lives in Pueblo Colorado."

Is this the same person that you purchased your memorabilia piece from?

 

[gumbyk]

Not sure how much use carbon dating would be for metals. Carbon used for steels is sourced from coal, so is pretty old.

Unless there is other carbon based material in the fragment.

 

[swampyankee]

The fragment is a multi-layered soft metal that I do not think has the serial number. I do not want to pry it open. However I can remove a piece that can be sent in for analysis. With carbon dating the piece can be traced back. I am NOT doubting RC, I just want to know if the piece is not something that did not come from a toy truck. DP

How much are you wiiling to spend? There are analysis techniques for determining isotope ratios and elemental composition which may be able to give a minimum age and whether it's consonant with the age and origin. Faking relics is a very old business, probably dating back to Classical Greek or before.

 

[DAI PHAN]

How much are you wiiling to spend? There are analysis techniques for determining isotope ratios and elemental composition which may be able to give a minimum age and whether it's consonant with the age and origin. Faking relics is a very old business, probably dating back to Classical Greek or before.

Yes I am sure. I have 10 prints from well known aviation artists with their signatures, number of the print, the pilot signatures and documentation of the authenticity ( a certificate that states this print is real with actual signatures). But I see how easy it is to fake such a thing and pass them on for real. Since I already ordered another print from Ron, I will keep it at that. Dai

 

[vikingBerserker]

Is this the same person that you purchased your memorabilia piece from?

I do not believe that is him, this Ron Cole's background is as an architect.

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I've done business with him before and never had an issue with him so I feel he's honest. One thing to also keep in mind is whomever he is getting the "relics" from could be dishonest as well. It's a tough call but for me I am 2-1 when it comes to buying an authentic relic.

 

[DAI PHAN]

I do not believe that is him, this Ron Cole's background is as an architect.

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I've done business with him before and never had an issue with him so I feel he's honest. One thing to also keep in mind is whomever he is getting the "relics" from could be dishonest as well. It's a tough call but for me I am 2-1 when it comes to buying an authentic relic.

You are right on that. Getting a print plus a rare relic for 150.00 bucks is much less than I expect. I would reckon it commands much higher price since it came from a very historical significant wreck. Dai

 

[DAI PHAN]

The relic is very soft metal, easily bent laminated with many pieces together about 1.5 mm thick. It is painted green on one side. Can the aircraft skin be this soft? Dai

 

[DAI PHAN]

I do not believe that is him, this Ron Cole's background is as an architect.

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I've done business with him before and never had an issue with him so I feel he's honest. One thing to also keep in mind is whomever he is getting the "relics" from could be dishonest as well. It's a tough call but for me I am 2-1 when it comes to buying an authentic relic.

You are 2-1 when come to buying relics so what happens to the 1? Dai

 

[vikingBerserker]

A seller on eBay advertised an antenna mast for a Martin B-10 which I bought, but when I received it it was obviously too small. It turned out to actually be for a Boeing P-26 which I explained to the seller. I had to make a small but valid threat and he ended up taking the item back, and refunding what I paid, plus the return freight.

It fortunately had an aircraft number and a serial number on the part so it was easy to prove my case. A piece of twisted metal is different and unless the initial source of it is truly reputable, its a tough call.

I hope it is authentic as it would be a cool piece art/relic to have.

 

[DAI PHAN]

A seller on eBay advertised an antenna mast for a Martin B-10 which I bought, but when I received it it was obviously too small. It turned out to actually be for a Boeing P-26 which I explained to the seller. I had to make a small but valid threat and he ended up taking the item back, and refunding what I paid, plus the return freight.

It fortunately had an aircraft number and a serial number on the part so it was easy to prove my case. A piece of twisted metal is different and unless the initial source of it is truly reputable, its a tough call.

I hope it is authentic as it would be a cool piece art/relic to have.

Yes in deed. Yesterday I was touching the relic and an eerie feeling overcame me. If this IS the actual piece from Yamamoto plane, then I am holding a piece of wreckage that 7 people died in. It is like having a piece of coffin that a person was buried in. I assume this piece is original and if someone scammed me, he will have to answer to the Lord one way or another. Dai

 

[michaelmaltby]

.... battlefield looting is as old as war ... including, sadly, the removal of gold teeth, but, that said, when the battle is long over and tempers have cooled, the trafficking in war relics of any kind just just .... creepy.

 

[pbehn]

.... battlefield looting is as old as war ... including, sadly, the removal of gold teeth, but, that said, when the battle is long over and tempers have cooled, the trafficking in war relics of any kind just just .... creepy.

Where a death is involved I believe any relics should be the property of relatives and museums.