Post-BoB: workable options for Luftwaffe

[tonycat77]

Do-17 production stopped in 1940 (?)

Good.

You need as many He 111s as you can get until you get your He-177 - 4 flown, tooled up and in production.

I disagree, get the ju88 instead.

They were getting into production. Problem is that it needs engines. The BMW 801 was a minimum

I wonder if they could get away with Jumo 211s or db601s until the bmw 801 could get it together, earlier variants produced only 1600hp on take-off, i don`t think a 1400 liquid cooled engine with less drag would be much worse off and you could get them by mid 1941.

Why? they were several years from getting anything useful.

Hispano-Suiza 12Z - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

SNECMA 14R - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1400-1600Hp class engines, basically ready to produce by 1940, never done due to armistice prohibitions, could had been exported to allies who already built french engines under license (Romania,Italy) or used to power secondary line aircraft like ju-290 partrol aircraft, Ju-252s, etc.

OK, that is a given.

 

[PAT303]

The Germans needed to decide what they wanted to achieve over England and stick to it, forget invasion but instead blockade, don't declare war on any other countries just focus on England. The 109 was in mass production and could be made very quickly but after the F/G it's development is not worth it, get the development of the 190 in top gear, they want the Dora in the air and in production as quickly as possible, Jumo can focus on the 213 and Ju88 instead of other projects that went nowhere so the Luftwaffe can have both the Anton and Dora as their primary single seat fighters. Stick to the low level nuisance raids, make the RAF fight, the MkV is no match for the Anton, I'd have low level sweeps going across England every day if the weather allows hitting targets everywhere, I wouldn't let the British feel safe, if it's a clear day I want them to know the butcher birds are coming. I'd have He 111 and Ju 88's dropping torpedoes into the British ports, just fly up to within say 2-3000 yards and drop them before turning away, purely optimistic but drop a few and you will hit something even if it's a fishing port, a torp sitting on the beach with a time fuze ticking away would close down all activity and put even more pressure on the defence forces. Lastly they need intelligence, the Luftwaffe needs a PR Spitfire equivalent, they need to know where the engine factories are, where the production lines are and bomb them relentlessly, and mine every port every day.

 

[Shortround6]

I disagree, get the ju88 instead.

The Ju 88 was almost as overhyped as the Ju 87. The He 111 was not fast but it could carry a decent bombload a fair distance.
The JU 88 could carry a heavy load a short distance or light load a fair distance, not both. Add after you filled up the bomb bays with fuel and hung the bombs outside you aren't than much faster than the He 111. Ok the Ju-88 was faster on the way home.

I wonder if they could get away with Jumo 211s or db601s until the bmw 801 could get it together, earlier variants produced only 1600hp on take-off, i don`t think a 1400 liquid cooled engine with less drag would be much worse off and you could get them by mid 1941.

The Problem with the 217 is not the drag, it is getting the darn thing off the Runway. Do-217 went about 33,000lbs normal load and and just over 36,000lbs max overload. With a 623 sq ft wing. We are in Martin B-26 territory here, except the B-26 started with 1850hp engines. Ju-88A-4s had problems with max load take-offs, solved by strapping rockets under the wings.

1400-1600Hp class engines, basically ready to produce by 1940,

And yet they hardly sold any after the war, the advertised power output dropped, even using 100/130 fuel and they gained weight.
the "Basically ready to be produced" is a myth.

 

[z42]

If the Germans had built something like the Ki-61 with the DB 601E (18% more power and higher up) engine in early 1942 it might have solved a few problems. 35-40% more fuel without the drop tank.

Something along the lines of the Ki61 is a good suggestion and others would include the Fiat G55. These are all a little bit bigger, used the same engine and had the additional weapons needed for combating later allied aircraft, plus the ability to carry a decent bombload.

I think these suggestions are not workable if we're to remain true to the original topic of the thread, that is what could LW/RLM/etc. do differently post-BoB. Starting a new single engine prop fighter project, even one largely inspired by Ki-61 or Fiat G55, would still mean a wait of several years until we have something combat ready and available in volume. We're pretty much stuck with the Bf109 and FW190, for better or worse. All is not bleak however, the FW190 has enough legroom to be an excellent plane until jets take over, particularly in the long-nosed variants (Fw190D & Ta152).

Stick the DB 601E on the Fw 190 and Bob's your uncle?

What's with this sudden infatuation with the 601E?

Anyway, I'm not sure this would be a really excellent fighter, the FW190 was a bigger and heavier plane than the 109F and I worry the 601E might not have enough oomph for it. That being said, it would be a good way to kickstart the development of the long-nosed FW190 variants a bit sooner instead of waiting for the Jumo 213 to be available. EDIT: Forgot to mention, IIRC the 605 had the same mountings as the 601, so adapting the 601 to the FW190 might not be such a bad idea after all, it has a ready upgrade path once the 605 arrives on the scene. EDIT2: Though balance might be a problem. The 801, 603, and 213 were all in the 1000 kg range, whereas the 601E was only 660 kg, and the 605 750 kg.

Ok, so my plan for rationalizing fighter R&D and production:

• Cancel all piston engine day fighter projects except Bf109 and FW190 (yes, including fascinating contraptions like the Do335). Focus on getting the long-nosed FW190 in volume use ASAP. Bf109 production cannot be shutdown just like that, cannot afford the production shortfall, but goal is to start winding down production as soon as feasible when either FW190 or jet production ramps up sufficiently. As the long-nosed FW190 take over fighter duties, the BMW801 versions of the FW190 remain as ground attack versions (FW190F).
• Cancel all piston engine R&D except DB605, DB603, and Jumo 213. Maybe small improvements to existing platforms like DB601 and BMW801. Focus on getting good 2S2S superchargers to, in particular, the 603 and 213.
• Ta152H was maybe a bit too extreme, designed to counter B29's very high. Make a Ta152H- (?) optimized for the altitudes actually in use at the time. So still need a good 2S2S supercharger, but can probably skip the pressurized cockpit, and the wings can probably be a bit shorter.
• Although the original Ta152H in an unarmed version could be a good high altitude photo-rec plane?
• For the long-nosed FW190, instead of the fuselage extension between the cockpit and the tail, put the extension ahead of the cockpit, install a fuel tank there for better range? Though that might make for very poor forward visibility?
• Standard armament for the long-nosed FW190 initially 30mm Mk108 motor cannon, and two MG151/20 in the wing roots (as FW190D-13 and Ta152 historically ended up with). Forget the cowling MG's. Later on, if the previously discussed "MG151/25" materializes, use this everywhere replacing the 20 and 30mm cannons.
• Bf110/210/410 and He219 as night fighters.
• Last but not least, jets jets jets. Get the He280 in use ASAP, followed by the Me262. Then maybe these various single engine Messerschmitt prototypes (P.1101). Forget the Me163, that's a distraction more dangerous for its users than the enemy.

 

[Shortround6]

Starting a new single engine prop fighter project, even one largely inspired by Ki-61 or Fiat G55, would still mean a wait of several years until we have something combat ready and available in volume.

If they wait to see the Ki-61 or G55 they are too late.
first flight of the Hawker Typhoon was in Feb 1940, well before the BoB. As we know things did not go well However it shows that the British were planning on replacing the Hurricane and Spitfire in 1938-39. The Luftwaffe should have been planning on replacing the 109 before the BoB. Yes they were planning on the 190 and yes the 109F was significant improvement but it was no real improvement in weapons load or range so it was short sighted.
The Ki-61 simply shows what could have been done with a similar engine to the 109. It didn't use any advanced aerodynamics.

 

[PAT303]

A new design is too little too late, focus on the 190, both radial and inline.

 

[tomo pauk]

The Germans had enough trouble fitting 2 and 3 different guns with different ballistics (times of flight) to their aircraft.
The 20mm Hispano and the .50 cal Browning actually have pretty similar ballistics, at least out to 600yds or so.
The German guns are all over the place.

Alternative German guns were suggested up-thread, including 25mm types and mid-power 30 mm. Ditto for the Fw 190 and Bf 109 loosing cowl MGs of any type that was historically used, leaving just to up to two gun types on one A/C.

The MG FFM was a crap gun after the first few years. The MG 151 isn't that much heavier. 14-16kg? For that you get around 25% higher fire rate and you get around 100m/s more velocity for shorter times of flight.
The German mine shell had some very good advantages, long range gunner was not one of them. It retained velocity like a ping-pong ball.

I've suggested MG FFM not because it was best in everything, but because it can easily fit within the confines of the wing of the Bf 109, a thing where MG 151/20 required a bit of internal surgery on the wing to be done.
Mine shell of 20mm fired at 700 m/s is still with vastly better ballistics than the 30mm fired at 500 m/s. Long range gunnery was not going to work until computing sights are in use anyway.

 

[Denniss]

Remember with that much extra fuel on 109/190 you'll also need extra oil. The Bf 109 LR Recons with two drops tank had an oil tank in place of the MGs and/or their ammo boxes
The 300l tank was barely fitting under the 109 wings, afaik they required a concrete runway so they won't shear them off on grass.
For 400-500L DT on 109/190 you'd need a whole new (flatter) design.

I completely agree on BMw (and others) wasting too much resources in huge and complicated 16+ cylinder engines. BMW should have focused on improving the 801, especially supercharger but maybe also a 4-valve head, and the jet engines (focus on 1-2 promising designs).

 

[Glider]

I think these suggestions are not workable if we're to remain true to the original topic of the thread, that is what could LW/RLM/etc. do differently post-BoB. Starting a new single engine prop fighter project, even one largely inspired by Ki-61 or Fiat G55, would still mean a wait of several years until we have something combat ready and available in volume. We're pretty much stuck with the Bf109 and FW190, for better or worse. All is not bleak however, the FW190 has enough legroom to be an excellent plane until jets take over, particularly in the long-nosed variants (Fw190D & Ta152).

I didn't make myself clear. The Me109F was in many ways a totally new aircraft, the original Me109 B-E series had run its course. What I think Germany needed was something like the G55 as it was a little bit bigger giving development potential instead of the later Me109 G series. However we have to be realistic, Germany needed something to fill the gap whilst this was developed and the 109F and G2 which were similar in many ways could fill that gap.
USA Four engine bombers didn't arrive in numbers until late 1942 and the G55 (ish) equivalent could have been ready for that eventuality.

Germany didn't have to wait for the G55 to develop the equivalent, they needed to recognise by mid 1939 that the 109 wasn't the long term future for the Luftwaffe and something was needed by early 1941.

 

[z42]

Germany didn't have to wait for the G55 to develop the equivalent, they needed to recognise by mid 1939 that the 109 wasn't the long term future for the Luftwaffe and something was needed by early 1941.

Well, isn't that exactly what was done? Autumn 1937, RLM launches a new tender for a fighter aircraft to complement the Bf 109 (the winner of an earlier tender), eventually Kurt Tank's radial engined proposal is accepted, first flight of the FW190 prototype in June 1939, enters squadron use in August 1941. Supposedly Tank submitted many proposals including inline engined ones, the radial one was apparently interesting since DB inlines were earmarked for Bf 109/110. Perhaps they could instead have ordered an increase in production of inlines, and the FW would have been equipped with such from the get-go.

 

[Glider]

Well, isn't that exactly what was done? Autumn 1937, RLM launches a new tender for a fighter aircraft to complement the Bf 109 (the winner of an earlier tender), eventually Kurt Tank's radial engined proposal is accepted, first flight of the FW190 prototype in June 1939, enters squadron use in August 1941. Supposedly Tank submitted many proposals including inline engined ones, the radial one was apparently interesting since DB inlines were earmarked for Bf 109/110. Perhaps they could instead have ordered an increase in production of inlines, and the FW would have been equipped with such from the get-go.

Partly but they didn't replace the 109. Germany needed a higher altitude fighter. But I agree putting everything into the Fw190 and leaving the 109 would have been a good move

 

[tonycat77]

The Ju 88 was almost as overhyped as the Ju 87. The He 111 was not fast but it could carry a decent bombload a fair distance.
The JU 88 could carry a heavy load a short distance or light load a fair distance, not both. Add after you filled up the bomb bays with fuel and hung the bombs outside you aren't than much faster than the He 111. Ok the Ju-88 was faster on the way home.

I think you can try and get a earlier ju-188/JU-88S, add the wooden bomb pannier and remove that horrible draggy lower gunner

The Problem with the 217 is not the drag, it is getting the darn thing off the Runway. Do-217 went about 33,000lbs normal load and and just over 36,000lbs max overload. With a 623 sq ft wing. We are in Martin B-26 territory here, except the B-26 started with 1850hp engines. Ju-88A-4s had problems with max load take-offs, solved by strapping rockets under the wings.

I think you could shave off a lot of weight by removing the dive bombing strengthening, they welded shut the dive brakes anyway when they received from the factory.

And yet they hardly sold any after the war, the advertised power output dropped, even using 100/130 fuel and they gained weight.
the "Basically ready to be produced" is a myth.

Okay, but what can be done about the french industry?, Gutting it and sending it all to Germany will take months if not years to see a production increase of German engines.

Would it be better if Germany focused on the 802 instead of the 222?
Japan got reliable high output 18 cylinders with worse fuel, same as the soviets, I don't see why Germany couldn't get a 1800hp class radial by 1942.

 

[Shortround6]

I think you can try and get a earlier ju-188/JU-88S, add the wooden bomb pannier and remove that horrible draggy lower gunner

I wondered when the might JU-88S was going to show up in the discussion.
1. You need the 1700hp BM 801G2 engines.
2. You really need to figure out what you want this thing to do. Normal internal fuel is 369 IMP gallons
A, carry 14 143lbs in the forward bay and ?????in the rear bay?
1. 149imp gallon tank.. Top speed 340mph range
2. Fit the GM-1 boost equipment in the rear bay, keep the bombs, Speed hits 379mph Range goes in the toilet.
B, fit the 268imp gal tank in the forward bay, keep the GM-1 in the rear bay, range is good, Speed is good, except the bombs (two of them) have to outside cutting some of the speed off.
1. Take the GM-1 out of the rear bay, stick the 149 gal tank in the rear bay, go for the range, hang the two big bombs on the outside and accept the speed loss on the run in.

The options aren't really that good.
JU-188 uses Jumo 213 engines, If you can get Jumo 213s a lot earlier a lot the German problems get easier

I think you could shave off a lot of weight by removing the dive bombing strengthening, they welded shut the dive brakes anyway when they received from the factory.

Thing is you can't just cut the extra weight out. You have to restress the whole thing, and you may not like what you get. Cut too much weight and you may break the plane doing night fighter or ground staffing maneuvers (Or anti-ship). If you want He 111 type structural weight you have to use He 111 type maneuvers.

Okay, but what can be done about the french industry?, Gutting it and sending it all to Germany will take months if not years to see a production increase of German engines.

Would it be better if Germany focused on the 802 instead of the 222?
Japan got reliable high output 18 cylinders with worse fuel, same as the soviets, I don't see why Germany couldn't get a 1800hp class radial by 1942.

French were actually building BMW 801s and Jumo 213s, just not a lot of them. They also built Argus V-12 air cooled engines and maybe V-8s?
A lot of the French machinery was not sitting in empty factories. The French workers were trying to build as little as possible without getting shot.
Changing what they were making doesn't change that part of the equation.

 

[tonycat77]

I wondered when the might JU-88S was going to show up in the discussion.
1. You need the 1700hp BM 801G2 engines.
2. You really need to figure out what you want this thing to do. Normal internal fuel is 369 IMP gallons
A, carry 14 143lbs in the forward bay and ?????in the rear bay?
1. 149imp gallon tank.. Top speed 340mph range
2. Fit the GM-1 boost equipment in the rear bay, keep the bombs, Speed hits 379mph Range goes in the toilet.
B, fit the 268imp gal tank in the forward bay, keep the GM-1 in the rear bay, range is good, Speed is good, except the bombs (two of them) have to outside cutting some of the speed off.
1. Take the GM-1 out of the rear bay, stick the 149 gal tank in the rear bay, go for the range, hang the two big bombs on the outside and accept the speed loss on the run in.

I see, i guess the best option would to develop something similar to a ki-49/ki-67/p1y1 ginga then.

The options aren't really that good.
JU-188 uses Jumo 213 engines, If you can get Jumo 213s a lot earlier a lot the German problems get easier

DB-603 got canned before ww2, i wonder what would've happened if it got prioritized instead, also the 213 first ran in 1940, but only entered production by late 43, i think we could had saved a lot of time by canning the 222 early on.

Thing is you can't just cut the extra weight out. You have to restress the whole thing, and you may not like what you get. Cut too much weight and you may break the plane doing night fighter or ground staffing maneuvers (Or anti-ship). If you want He 111 type structural weight you have to use He 111 type maneuvers.

How about b-25/b-26 levels of stressing? would that save weight? i'm grasping at straws here lol

French were actually building BMW 801s and Jumo 213s, just not a lot of them. They also built Argus V-12 air cooled engines and maybe V-8s?
A lot of the French machinery was not sitting in empty factories. The French workers were trying to build as little as possible without getting shot.
Changing what they were making doesn't change that part of the equation.

Ship it out to Romania and Italy then, but i guess that would need a much more resistant france early on.
Let's say Petain realizes it's better to serve in heaven than lead in hell and escapes to algiers to keep fighting on, without his legitimacy i don't see a unoccupied france existing for long.

 

[z42]

Partly but they didn't replace the 109. Germany needed a higher altitude fighter. But I agree putting everything into the Fw190 and leaving the 109 would have been a good move

I don't think it was really feasible to shut down 109 production just like that. What could have been feasible would be to ramp FW190 production faster, and then start ramping down 109 production, plus a sharper dive when jets start to enter the scene (which should and could have been done sooner had the leadership seen the transformative potential of jets). But it seems for a very long time the German leadership were thinking it was going to be a short war, and thus they prioritized current production over introducing new types.

As for a high altitude fighter, they got there eventually in the guise of the Ta152, which by all accounts seems to have been a formidable aircraft. Though of course by then it was far too little too late to matter. They should have absolutely fast-tracked the long-nosed FW190 with two stage supercharger with intercooler much earlier, to replace both FW190A (in fighter roles) and Bf109 and complement the jets.

 

[z42]

Would it be better if Germany focused on the 802 instead of the 222?

IMHO, neither. BMW should have focused on improving the 801, and on jets. Jumo should have scrapped all new engine projects, except the 213 and 004. DB should have focused on the 605 and 603, scrap the rest. High priority on high altitude supercharging with 2S superchargers with intercooling, and on high pressure cooling systems. And of course, maximum effort in solving their issues due to lack of critical materials (valves, spark plugs, bearings), and share the findings across the industry.

(And depending on how long they manage to drag out the war, next gen jet projects.)

Japan got reliable high output 18 cylinders with worse fuel, same as the soviets, I don't see why Germany couldn't get a 1800hp class radial by 1942.

The got something like 2000hp out of the 801E and F versions, though I'm not sure any of them entered service. And yes, that was later than 1942. But I'm not just seeing how the timelines would match up here. The 801 was still giving lots of problems early in its operational life (entered squadron service in August 1941), it wasn't until early 1942 or so they got it to a reasonably reliable state. How could they have a new 18-cylinder radial (802), even one ostensibly reusing 801 cylinders and heads(?), in production usage by 1942?

In any case, they had the DB 603 and Jumo 213 coming up for the long nosed FW190/Ta152, so in a sense they didn't have a critical need for a bigger radial.

 

[Glider]

I don't think it was really feasible to shut down 109 production just like that. What could have been feasible would be to ramp FW190 production faster, and then start ramping down 109 production, plus a sharper dive when jets start to enter the scene (which should and could have been done sooner had the leadership seen the transformative potential of jets). But it seems for a very long time the German leadership were thinking it was going to be a short war, and thus they prioritized current production over introducing new types.

As for a high altitude fighter, they got there eventually in the guise of the Ta152, which by all accounts seems to have been a formidable aircraft. Though of course by then it was far too little too late to matter. They should have absolutely fast-tracked the long-nosed FW190 with two stage supercharger with intercooler much earlier, to replace both FW190A (in fighter roles) and Bf109 and complement the jets.

I actually agree with what you say. The only reason for developing the 109F to G2 is that they need something to tide themselves over in the high altitude area's until the later aircraft are on stream

 

[Shortround6]

I think some people are trying to go too fast.
You can't go from walking to running at the Olympic level in just a few years, you have to actually run and the then run fast before you get near Olympic levels.

As far as pressure cabins go, they found that not only does the Human body have troubles at over 40,000ft trying to use oxygen the problem actually starts in the low 30s or even just about 30,000ft. It is not a switch, above altitude XXX you need such and such and below that everything is OK. It is a sliding-progressive problem, a lot like diving, The higher you go the less time you can speed there. You can cruise at 28-30,000ft and then get vectored on to plane/formation operating had higher altitude (mid 30s) and climb up, intercept, shoot and come back down with usually no physical effects to the pilot/crew without pressurization. Trying to cruise around at 35,000ft for number of hours brings a lot of problems, everybody is a bit different. B-29s had ceiling that were all over the place but they didn't have pressure cabins because the US crews were lazy/weak and wanted to fly around in their shirtsleeves.
If you try large scale 3-6 hours missions at high altitudes you are going to make a number of the crews sick. If you want to fly around at over 40,000ft you need to be suited up in such a way that you can survive a pressurization leak and get down to an altitude that you can survive with just oxygen.

Just like the Luftwaffe tried to from manually operated defensive guns right to remote control barbettes and skip the manned turret, trying to jump from the 350-390mph aircraft of 1940 to 500mph jets (or 450mph high altitude piston planes) may have been too much of a jump. You have to figure out the stuff you need in-between along the way. Like compressibility?
And aileron control at 400-500mph so the plane doesn't turn into a high speed brick with little or no controllability hat high speeds (they already had that in 1940 with the 109)
Yes the 190 was not be-all and end-all but then the 190 was NOT pushing the envelope a high altitude either.

The US backed off what they were planning for high altitude, for one thing the Germans were not operating much higher than the B-17s and the P-51s could use lower altitude rated engines, And the B-17s could not operate at the designed for/hoped for altitudes over 30,000ft even after 2-3 years. They could not get the crews to survive for hours at time at the higher altitudes, even with electric heated suits and large supplies of oxygen.

 

[z42]

I think some people are trying to go too fast.
You can't go from walking to running at the Olympic level in just a few years, you have to actually run and the then run fast before you get near Olympic levels.

As far as pressure cabins go, they found that not only does the Human body have troubles at over 40,000ft trying to use oxygen the problem actually starts in the low 30s or even just about 30,000ft. It is not a switch, above altitude XXX you need such and such and below that everything is OK. It is a sliding-progressive problem, a lot like diving, The higher you go the less time you can speed there. You can cruise at 28-30,000ft and then get vectored on to plane/formation operating had higher altitude (mid 30s) and climb up, intercept, shoot and come back down with usually no physical effects to the pilot/crew without pressurization. Trying to cruise around at 35,000ft for number of hours brings a lot of problems, everybody is a bit different. B-29s had ceiling that were all over the place but they didn't have pressure cabins because the US crews were lazy/weak and wanted to fly around in their shirtsleeves.
If you try large scale 3-6 hours missions at high altitudes you are going to make a number of the crews sick. If you want to fly around at over 40,000ft you need to be suited up in such a way that you can survive a pressurization leak and get down to an altitude that you can survive with just oxygen.

Just like the Luftwaffe tried to from manually operated defensive guns right to remote control barbettes and skip the manned turret, trying to jump from the 350-390mph aircraft of 1940 to 500mph jets (or 450mph high altitude piston planes) may have been too much of a jump. You have to figure out the stuff you need in-between along the way. Like compressibility?
And aileron control at 400-500mph so the plane doesn't turn into a high speed brick with little or no controllability hat high speeds (they already had that in 1940 with the 109)
Yes the 190 was not be-all and end-all but then the 190 was NOT pushing the envelope a high altitude either.

The US backed off what they were planning for high altitude, for one thing the Germans were not operating much higher than the B-17s and the P-51s could use lower altitude rated engines, And the B-17s could not operate at the designed for/hoped for altitudes over 30,000ft even after 2-3 years. They could not get the crews to survive for hours at time at the higher altitudes, even with electric heated suits and large supplies of oxygen.

Yes, agreed. So the argument I tried to make above is that I think there would have been a happy medium between the FW190D (which had the Jumo 213A with a single stage two speed supercharger) and the Ta 152H with the pressurized cockpit and superlong wings for operating at 30k+ft. Not saying the Ta152H per se was a useless design, I think it was prudent to have a design like that ready to be ramped up if there were indications the USAAF would turn up in Europe with B29's at very high altitude. Something like a FW190D with a 213E engine, or a Ta152H without the pressurized cockpit and with clipped wings would have been good for the altitudes actually in use at the time.

And indeed the FW190D/Ta152 wasn't the be-all and end-all, but I think it would have been good enough until jets would have taken over, had the war dragged on for longer.

 

[z42]

As for the suggestion earlier in the thread about replacing the Ju 52, I don't know. While the Ju 52 was getting long in the tooth, I'm not sure it was critically deficient in a way that significantly hampered Germany's war efforts. But just for kicks, what would a more modern transport plane look like? Comparing with some widely used contemporary American transport planes we have roughly:

• Ju 52: Empty/gross weights: 5700/9500 kg. Powered by 3 725 hp engines. Carrying 17 troops. Range 1000 km.
• Douglas C-47 (military version of the famous DC-3): Empty/gross weights: 8200/11800 kg. Powered by two 1200 hp engines. Carrying 28 troops. Range 2600 km.
• Curtiss C-46: Empty/gross weights: 13900/20400 kg. Powered by two 2000 hp engines. Carrying 40 troops. Range 5000 km.

I'd suggest something like

• Use two engines. Initially Jumo 211F, thus about 1300 hp each. So just ballparking by the available engine power, could be a slightly bigger plane than the C-47, but definitely closer to that one than the C-46.
• Ditch the tail gunner. If caught by a fighter without escort it's toast anyway, might as well save the weight and drag.
• Modern stressed skin construction. Ideally using wood composites to save on the oh so precious aluminum (somebody said in another thread that Germany actually had quite highly developed technology in this area?).
• We do want more range than the 1000 km of the Ju 52. Something like 2000 km should definitely be achievable?