Proof that stereotypes are often massively wrong (2 Viewers)

[MiTasol]

I guess everyone has heard of the shooting in Sydney Australia and many have seen the video of the man who took down one of the shooters and ended up with bullet wounds for his actions.

Here is some more information on this man and some of those who support him. For those who missed the video it is included.

Parents praise 'hero' son for tackling gunman during Bondi Beach attack

The ABC has spoken to the parents of Ahmed Al Ahmed who was shot after he heroically wrestled and disarmed one of the Bondi Beach attackers.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Marcel]

I guess everyone has heard of the shooting in Sydney Australia and many have seen the video of the man who took down one of the shooters and ended up with bullet wounds for his actions.

Here is some more information on this man and some of those who support him. For those who missed the video it is included.

Parents praise 'hero' son for tackling gunman during Bondi Beach attack

The ABC has spoken to the parents of Ahmed Al Ahmed who was shot after he heroically wrestled and disarmed one of the Bondi Beach attackers.

www.abc.net.au

I was wondering about that guy.

And this is a huge middle finger to all idiots who judge people for their religion or ethnicity.

I'm trying to avoid politics, but you only need half a word I guess.

 

[Crimea_River]

Not that I need PROOF that stereotypes are often massively wrong. I tend to give my fellow man the benefit of the doubt. It's only the sickos and idiots that get all the attention.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Having lived in the Middle East for over five years, I can attest to the fact that like people everywhere, the communities there have heroes and villains, leaders and cowards, and like everywhere else most people of Arabic, Persian, or Muslim groups are basically good folks.

I reserve my ire for the assholes who use religion to justify barbarity.

 

[GTX]

I guess everyone has heard of the shooting in Sydney Australia and many have seen the video of the man who took down one of the shooters and ended up with bullet wounds for his actions.

Here is some more information on this man and some of those who support him. For those who missed the video it is included.

Parents praise 'hero' son for tackling gunman during Bondi Beach attack

The ABC has spoken to the parents of Ahmed Al Ahmed who was shot after he heroically wrestled and disarmed one of the Bondi Beach attackers.

www.abc.net.au

Exactly. I wish more people would highlight the fact that Ahmed El Ahmad, the 43-year-old father of two, who bravely risked his life, being shot twice, to save his neighbours celebrating Hanukkah is a Muslim. Yes, here we have a case of an average, every day Muslim stepping in to help save his Jewish neighbours. We should be celebrating this and not just going on claiming Australia is anti semitic and ramping up the hateful rhetoric.

 

[MiTasol]

My father taught me that all males are gentlemen and all females are ladies until they prove otherwise.

 

[PierreDeveaux]

Fully agree with you MiTasol : we ain't no Saints but we all are angels (except a few). Resorting to violence, in whichever form it may be, is worse than a crime, it's a fault

 

[MiTasol]

Another of my fathers favourite sayings was If the older generation was half as good as they claimed they were there would not be a younger generation.

 

[buffnut453]

Having lived in the Middle East for over five years, I can attest to the fact that like people everywhere, the communities there have heroes and villains, leaders and cowards, and like everywhere else most people of Arabic, Persian, or Muslim groups are basically good folks.

I reserve my ire for the assholes who use religion to justify barbarity.

One of my favourite quotes, albeit fictional, is from Sgt Buster Kilrain in the film 'Gettysburg."The thing is, you cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit."

The last part is particularly important for me. We like to label people by the colour of their skin, their socio-economic position, their age, and any number of other factors. I try really hard to avoid stereotyping people because, inevitably, it will be wrong.

 

[KLS&C 85]

I have served twice in the Middle East as both an Airman and Soldier. The picture of me here was taken at the Baghdad Airport in 2004. The problem isn't the average Muslim. The problem is the radicalized Muslims that believe they are predestined to rule the world. They are entitled to use any means to carry out that view. That all that oppose them must be killed. You are with them or dead. Being Jewish just makes you a first target. The rest of us are on their list.
The problem for the rest of us is how do we tell the difference until they act.
That leads to painting all with a broad brush. Yes, that is bigotry. It is a problem that only can be dispelled when the radicals are disowned, exposed by the other Muslims. Until that happens, the rest of us don't know the good from the bad until it is too late.
The vast majority of Australians are not carrying weapons by law. Anyone with basic marksmanship training willing to act is better than police that are responding, getting organized before acting. In this case Australia's weapon laws rendered the people at the beach as targets to be freely shot. If there were armed private citizens present, this would have ended much sooner.
The problem isn't guns. It is who has them. Law-abiding armed citizens are a solution not the problem. The problem has always been bad guys with guns. Politicians in Australia, I hope you wake up to reality and quit making your citizens defenseless targets for all bad guys not just the religion fanatics.

 

[Sabrejet]

Oh I don't know: I have a certain stereotypical view of the media and it rarely fails to live down to it.

 

[buffnut453]

The problem isn't guns. It is who has them. Law-abiding armed citizens are a solution not the problem. The problem has always been bad guys with guns. Politicians in Australia, I hope you wake up to reality and quit making your citizens defenseless targets for all bad guys not just the religion fanatics.

The event at Bondi Beach was a massive outlier for Australia.

Comparing gun-related violence in Australia with that in the US, the former has far less per 100,000 of population (several thousand percent less). The data suggests that less stringent gun laws result in streets that are more dangerous,

 

[Sabrejet]

Well the problem certainly includes guns: countries with no/little gun ownership have little/no gun crime. So stop gaslighting yourself and admit it: removal of all guns from private ownership is the only way this will stop. All guns.

 

[KLS&C 85]

Well the problem certainly includes guns: countries with no/little gun ownership have little/no gun crime. So stop gaslighting yourself and admit it: removal of all guns from private ownership is the only way this will stop. All guns.

The problem is people!
If guns were the problem, when I was in Iraq, we all had military rifles, and some belt fed machine guns. There were about 100,000 of us. If you are right, then we should have been shooting each other up! That didn't happen!
Guns are nothing more than a tool. In America, this is from the FBI. More people are murdered by hammers than all rifles and shotguns combined. So going by your logic shouldn't only licensed carpenters be allowed to buy and own a hammer?
Our Revolutionary War started because British Soldiers were attempting to confiscate privately owned rifles, cannon, and gun powder. If the British had succeeded, we would still be a British colony today.

 

[KLS&C 85]

The event at Bondi Beach was a massive outlier for Australia.

Comparing gun-related violence in Australia with that in the US, the former has far less per 100,000 of population (several thousand percent less). The data suggests that less stringent gun laws result in streets that are more dangerous,

Many of those committing gun crimes are those that due to prior felonies are banned from possessing guns. Yet they ignore the law from the start. For them, using a gun is just one more law they are breaking. They just don't care about laws or people.
I assume that in Australia, it is against the law to shoot people. The law certainly didn't stop this from happening.

 

[Marcel]

The problem is people!
If guns were the problem, when I was in Iraq, we all had military rifles, and some belt fed machine guns. There were about 100,000 of us. If you are right, then we should have been shooting each other up! That didn't happen!
Guns are nothing more than a tool. In America, this is from the FBI. More people are murdered by hammers than all rifles and shotguns combined. So going by your logic shouldn't only licensed carpenters be allowed to buy and own a hammer?
Our Revolutionary War started because British Soldiers were attempting to confiscate privately owned rifles, cannon, and gun powder. If the British had succeeded, we would still be a British colony today.

It's the classic debate, isn't it? Is it people or is it the equipment.
The problem with this discussion is actually that it's both. Guns will not kill without people handling them and people will not kill without a lethal weapon.

But I don't think that Europeans are in any way superior over our American friends in that regard. Still if you compare the amount of shootings per head of the population in the USA and north-west Europe, I think you will find that this comparison will look unfavourable for the USA.
To me, one of the significant differences is gun-laws.
I think we underestimate what effect it has on mentality if it's accepted in a society to handle lethal weapons as a pastime.

I see Americans often pointing at these kind of incidents like Australia as proof that strict gunlaws are not helping, but while this is big in the news, I cannot remember the last time that another school shooting in the USA was any more than only a minor newsitem.

In the end one has to look at the whole picture, not at single incidents. Statistics show that there is 22x more gundeath in the USA compared to Europe, indicating a significant contribution to those figures by the difference in gun laws. Or do you really think Europeans are mentally that much better than Americans?

 

[buffnut453]

Many of those committing gun crimes are those that due to prior felonies are banned from possessing guns. Yet they ignore the law from the start. For them, using a gun is just one more law they are breaking. They just don't care about laws or people.
I assume that in Australia, it is against the law to shoot people. The law certainly didn't stop this from happening.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. Laws will never stop people breaking them. Everyone breaks laws at some point in their lives; to suggest otherwise is a false categorization dichotomy between law-abiding and law-breaking people.

The problem is people!
If guns were the problem, when I was in Iraq, we all had military rifles, and some belt fed machine guns. There were about 100,000 of us. If you are right, then we should have been shooting each other up! That didn't happen!
Guns are nothing more than a tool. In America, this is from the FBI. More people are murdered by hammers than all rifles and shotguns combined. So going by your logic shouldn't only licensed carpenters be allowed to buy and own a hammer?
Our Revolutionary War started because British Soldiers were attempting to confiscate privately owned rifles, cannon, and gun powder. If the British had succeeded, we would still be a British colony today.

In Iraq, you were part of a disciplined, military organization that was bound by rules of engagement, and in which each member has sworn an oath to obey legal orders. Yes, guns are an inanimate object and it's people who shoot them. However, the bald fact remains that the US has considerably higher rates of gun crime than other developed nations.

Can you please cite a source for your statement about hammer murders? My googling suggests fewer than 400 people per year are killed due to blunt force instruments (of which hammers are but part) and yet there are over 10,000 deaths due to firearms each year. This table in the link below is from the FBI with figures up to 2019:

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

ucr.fbi.gov

The Revolutionary War was about political representation, not about firearms confiscation. Given the collapse of the British Empire, I very much doubt the US would still be a British colony.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation because it seems facts are being supplanted by hyperbole, and because we're gusting perilously close to the "no politics" rule that the forum operates.

 

[Marcel]

I'm going to bow out of this conversation … because we're gusting perilously close to the "no politics" rule that the forum operates.

Indeed.