Question about aircraft position

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by paletteone, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. paletteone

    paletteone Member

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    Hi all, I'm working on a painting of John Dundas' Spitfire. Attached is a sketch which I will work up to a larger size later on. In another forum a point was brought up, see the quote below.

    "I like the atmosphere and composition. I'm just wondering if the position of the bombers is a little too level to the Spitfires to justify the wingover by the Spit on the right? I'm not a pilot, and stand to be corrected by those more knowledgeable than me on this, but with a wingover manoeuvre like that, I would expect the aircraft to be diving quite steeply after that and thus lose valuable height. If so, then the bombers should be positioned lower than the Spitfires."

    If someone here, perhaps a pilot (or not), can shed some light on this I'll be certain to position the bombers a bit lower in my final rendering. Or I will simply reduce the banking angle on the distant Spit. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
     

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  2. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    I would agree with the comments. At the altitudes of each relevant group (fighters/bombers), to attack successfully, the Spits, being at virtually the same level, would try to swing out to make either a head on, or rear attack, unless time was of the essence, then a beam attack would be initiated.
    To retain the effect of the Spits peeling off, the bomber formation needs to be lower.
    Is this a portrayal of an actual action by 609 Squadron? If so, then if possible, try to obtain details of the action - the Squadron were mainly based at Middle Wallop, in 10 Group, during the big raids of August and September 1940, and there are some accounts of their actions. Control by then was fairly good, and in most cases, the defending fighters were positioned up sun, with an altitude advantage, in order to make a diving attack.
    Hope this helps.
     
  3. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Depends how fast he was going prior to doing the wing over. There's a lot of variables that has to be taken into consideration. Personally I see nothing wrong with the painting and the comment seems to be made by an "armchair."
     
  4. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Exactly Flyboyj!
     
  5. davparlr

    davparlr Well-Known Member

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    With all the variable in combat flight, I see no problem with this depiction.
     
  6. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    I agree - as it stands, the painting is fine. However, if portraying an actual action, then, for historical accuracy, accounts of this action would prove helpful in positioning the two formations.
     
  7. paletteone

    paletteone Member

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    Thanks guys,

    your feedback is exteremely helpful. I think that I will meet in the middle when I do the final painting, and simply lessen the angle of bank on the Spit, that way I'll retain the look without drastic changes. This scene isn't based on anything specific, just meant to be a generic BoB scene with Dundas' aircraft in it.
     
  8. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Looking forward to seeing the finished work.
     
  9. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    I have no expertise to add anything apart from does the wing on the foreground Spit look a little miss shapen almost gull winged. Or do I need a new prescription for my goggles :oops:
     
  10. paletteone

    paletteone Member

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    Great observation fastmongrel, and thanks for that. I think a slight rework in straightening that part of the wing has improved it.
     

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