If you want information from his pilots log let me know-i havent had time to read it-it was all filled with names and photographs-a big detective story-I would love to find more about the german side of what happened-after the war dad sent food parcels to the german corporal who showed much kindness to him-I have a picture of the corporal beside his trucks-dad was destrought when the guy disappeared after the end of the war-letters from him stopped coming and he was behind, I think, the iron curtain-first is to find out more about the site of the initial incident-then where my father was taken after, via the gestapo-the only thing he never spoke about to any member of the family, to a convent hospital near fassberg
RAF Bomber Command Diary... Jan 1945......
- Thread starter lesofprimus
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Erich
the old Sage
post away please hooter ! am I correct that your fathers Mossie was shot down by a German nf ? as I posted on the other page.
16/17 January 45
German Nf defences claimed 19 RAF bombers with inclusion of 1 Mosquito VI. the German pilot was Rudolf Mangelsdorf at 22.11 hrs. his other kill this eve was at 22.05 hrs over a Halifax south of Hannover.
Oblt. Wiethüchter of III./NJG 3 claiamed a Hali near Magdeburg
Hptm. von Tesmar of IV./NJG 3 claimed a Hali near Dduerstadt
Hptm Dreher claimed hali from IV./NJG 3
Feldwebel Rannefeld of IV./NJG 3 claimed a Hali
Leutnanat Schäfer of 7./NJG 2 claimed 2 kills, the first at 22.03 hrs a Lanc and the other also a Lanc at 22.14 hrs both RAF craft S.E. of Hildesheim
Oberstlt. Walter Borchers of STab./NJG 5 flying a Ju 88G-6 shot dwon 3 Lancsters
Oberlt. Ehrhardt of I./NJG 5 shyot down a Hali
Hauptmann Werner Hopf of III./NJG 5 shot down 3 Hali's.
Oberlt. Breitfeld of III./NJG 5 shot down 2 Hali's
Oblt. Kurt Welter and the two kills are suspect...........flying a Me 262A-1a shot down 2 Lancasters
E
16/17 January 45
German Nf defences claimed 19 RAF bombers with inclusion of 1 Mosquito VI. the German pilot was Rudolf Mangelsdorf at 22.11 hrs. his other kill this eve was at 22.05 hrs over a Halifax south of Hannover.
Oblt. Wiethüchter of III./NJG 3 claiamed a Hali near Magdeburg
Hptm. von Tesmar of IV./NJG 3 claimed a Hali near Dduerstadt
Hptm Dreher claimed hali from IV./NJG 3
Feldwebel Rannefeld of IV./NJG 3 claimed a Hali
Leutnanat Schäfer of 7./NJG 2 claimed 2 kills, the first at 22.03 hrs a Lanc and the other also a Lanc at 22.14 hrs both RAF craft S.E. of Hildesheim
Oberstlt. Walter Borchers of STab./NJG 5 flying a Ju 88G-6 shot dwon 3 Lancsters
Oberlt. Ehrhardt of I./NJG 5 shyot down a Hali
Hauptmann Werner Hopf of III./NJG 5 shot down 3 Hali's.
Oberlt. Breitfeld of III./NJG 5 shot down 2 Hali's
Oblt. Kurt Welter and the two kills are suspect...........flying a Me 262A-1a shot down 2 Lancasters
E
- Thread starter
- #24
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Erich, I think he was implying that his Dad got smoked by a double-quad anti-aircraft battery on the edge of the airfield...
Hi Erich,
no not nightfighters-but flak from the two towers at the end of the runway-the germans did credit him with 3 kills, all ME109's-actually 1 destroyed, 1 damaged, and the third spun out and blew up-dads pilot number was 100750 and his navigator was A C Cockayne (both with 23 squadron)-now buried in Becklingen War Cemetary.
He lost one engine immediately-climbed, feathered the prop-and then the other one stopped-and all thoughts of back to blighty stopped too-then began the crash landing and the five miracles that my father reckoned saved his life-the first was finding a snow covered field over the black forrest and crash landing without blowing up immediately at 300mph
regards
no not nightfighters-but flak from the two towers at the end of the runway-the germans did credit him with 3 kills, all ME109's-actually 1 destroyed, 1 damaged, and the third spun out and blew up-dads pilot number was 100750 and his navigator was A C Cockayne (both with 23 squadron)-now buried in Becklingen War Cemetary.
He lost one engine immediately-climbed, feathered the prop-and then the other one stopped-and all thoughts of back to blighty stopped too-then began the crash landing and the five miracles that my father reckoned saved his life-the first was finding a snow covered field over the black forrest and crash landing without blowing up immediately at 300mph
regards
Erich
the old Sage
hmmmmmm, ok lets get this stright shall we. Was your dad on a night mission over Stendal airfield or a day time mission as you mention 3 ground kills ?
E
E
Erich
the old Sage
I am correct you fathers a/c was indeed shot down by a German Ju 88G-6 not ground based flakvierling. just looked up the German information although terribly brief to me from Germany as well as Holland ........crahs liste as 21.30 hrs but German time is a bit different / crashed near Bekedorf.
Code and squadron of the German claim match perfectly along with the F/O whom you said. I have a pick of manglesdorf and his crew plus their Ju 88 G
Code and squadron of the German claim match perfectly along with the F/O whom you said. I have a pick of manglesdorf and his crew plus their Ju 88 G
- Thread starter
- #28
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Excellent researching Erich..... Are u able to post the pic???
Erich
the old Sage
side notation : have just sent out two e-mails to two Danish research friends on this incident so should be enlightening if Rudi's claim is confirmed or Stendal Flakvierlings !
III./NJG 2 as a gruppe was based at Marx and Varel
but again I need to confirm just what gruppe Rudi was in for sure as it may have been IV./NJG 3 or ?
E ♫
III./NJG 2 as a gruppe was based at Marx and Varel
but again I need to confirm just what gruppe Rudi was in for sure as it may have been IV./NJG 3 or ?
E ♫
Erich
the old Sage
- Thread starter
- #31
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Love the paint scheme..... Excellent shot...
Erich
the old Sage
intersting to note this might be a Ju 88G-1 but cannot confirm it due to the left crewman standing in front of the rear warning radar set-up ............... move ya bum !
also the D5 code is for NJG 3, so I need to confirm which NJG. NJG 2 and NJG 3 exchanged their III. and IV. gruppes with each others and it is really confusing when observing the old fotos
also the D5 code is for NJG 3, so I need to confirm which NJG. NJG 2 and NJG 3 exchanged their III. and IV. gruppes with each others and it is really confusing when observing the old fotos
Erich
the old Sage
tis is all a crazy study. Rudi was in 12./NJG 3 for some time before going into 11./NJG 3 whcih then transferred over as the present 8./NJG 2 which he finished the war in. I question whether or not his Ju 88G-6 had the code changed from D5 to R4 ?
fascinating-the germans always told him it was flak-and as my father said-'those boys were good'. Along the weiser-elbe canal at a thousand feet or less and the flak crews levelled their guns to horizontal(more or less) to fire at him-he said he learnt to fly higher after that
Erich
the old Sage
well I got a response from one reseacher and he did say it was 20mm quads from the area of Fassberg ............ as I said when dual claims come in for the sme kill it can get real confusin especially in 1945. in the NARA reprots it says that 20mm guns were the responsible party. I await other notes to verify the claim of R. Mangelsdorf
Erich
the old Sage
more on the foto I presented. mangelsdorf died about 15 or so years ago and he is standing 2nd from the left with dark hair. mangelsdorf bordfünker is standing on the far right. Foto taken at Westerland in 1944 but not sure the month or day-week. my responses to the quiry are getting more and more wetted down as to "if" Rudi shot down the Mossie...........do I dare give in ? 
it well could have been the quad 2cm flakvierlings.....
it well could have been the quad 2cm flakvierlings.....
evening guys-fascinating
However the airfield he was sent to attack using ash was stendal-but nothing was going down-so they turned for home, and on the way back saw aircraft taxiing in the dark with navigation lights on and hooded runway lights on--my father said this was unheard of
Anyway according to their navigation they were over the area of the steinhuder lake (just sat here and read his draft notes for the author martin bowman)and the airfield he actually attacked was fassberg-he was picked up by the luftwaffe and treated at fassberg sickquarters for a month-then Dulag luft for a month-then to a convent hospital for a month(for RAF pow's)called homemark(the exact spelling I am not sure of), where it was overun by the us third army
However the airfield he was sent to attack using ash was stendal-but nothing was going down-so they turned for home, and on the way back saw aircraft taxiing in the dark with navigation lights on and hooded runway lights on--my father said this was unheard of
Anyway according to their navigation they were over the area of the steinhuder lake (just sat here and read his draft notes for the author martin bowman)and the airfield he actually attacked was fassberg-he was picked up by the luftwaffe and treated at fassberg sickquarters for a month-then Dulag luft for a month-then to a convent hospital for a month(for RAF pow's)called homemark(the exact spelling I am not sure of), where it was overun by the us third army
Erich
the old Sage
actually Beckedorf yes Fassberg not Stendal sorry.........
my question to others is what did Rudi confirm as shot down besides the Hali ?
there are notes in my data base of several Mossie intruders falling to Ju 88G-6's at low altitude due to Mossie overflights of Airfields. The mystery continues
Fassberg is noted at wars end upon the landing of surrendering JG 7 Me 262A-1a's to RCAF personell
my question to others is what did Rudi confirm as shot down besides the Hali ?
there are notes in my data base of several Mossie intruders falling to Ju 88G-6's at low altitude due to Mossie overflights of Airfields. The mystery continues
Fassberg is noted at wars end upon the landing of surrendering JG 7 Me 262A-1a's to RCAF personell
Erich-
do you reckon you could find out any info on the german pilots
-two (the first and third)me 109.s
The first was at the taxi point, the second half way up the runway-and a third spun in, crashed and burnt out.
He thought he had come upon Ju88s and was horrified to realise halfway up the runway that they were 109s-he could tell-he was so close that the cannon flashes had lit up the back of the pilots head, as he shot the bottom out of the aircraft
do you reckon you could find out any info on the german pilots
-two (the first and third)me 109.s
The first was at the taxi point, the second half way up the runway-and a third spun in, crashed and burnt out.
He thought he had come upon Ju88s and was horrified to realise halfway up the runway that they were 109s-he could tell-he was so close that the cannon flashes had lit up the back of the pilots head, as he shot the bottom out of the aircraft
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