RAF Pilot Training Hours 1940 (2 Viewers)

[Glider]

All
The papers that I read and the report that I gave explained the lack of time on Spitfires and Hurricanes namely the lack of aircraft in the first months of 1940 available to OTU. I noticed that in the This Day during the BOB' thread one German was shot down by an emergency flight of Spitfires put together by an OTU so they did seem to be getting on top of the situation
The second point that seems to being raised is the lack of firing practice in the OTU before being sent to the squadrons. That I didn't really think of going into apart from noting that only gun camera practice was undertaken in the SFTS from April. Next time I go into the NA I will spend more time on this. There is no doubt that the training curriculum designated the OTU as where this should be undertaken.

Like most of you I have read about trainee pilots who had received little gunnery practice and have no reason to doubt that this happened. However there were a number of OTU training schools and its unlikely that all of them had the same problem. After all a lot of people have motor shunts each year, that doesn't mean that everyone has a shunt.
I have mentioned that training courses were open to the weather and if it was bad then parts of the course didn't get completed. This could be one explanation but the weather isn't the same all over the UK. Another could be that because of the shortage of aircraft in the SFTS the OTU had to spend time on other aspects of the training, again not all the SFTS schools had the same shortage. The structure was changed in April and changed again in August, it's quite possible that they had barely got used to one change before the next was dropped on them, confusion was almost inevitable.
On top of that the RAF were having to gear up from 300 pilots a year in 1935 to 7,000 a year from the second revise, whilst at war and fighting the most intense air battle in history at that time, when the training bases and aircraft were open to attack, of course there were going to be problems.

I don't know the reason for the individual problems and frankly no one else on the forum knows the reason either.
The ideas mentioned above are just that, ideas, but ones based on what we know happened, but I also think it unlikely that because some pilots had these experiences, that every pilot had the same experience.

All I do know is that the course structure allowed for the training to take place.

 

[renrich]

Interesting info. According to Lundstrom in "The First Team" the USN training syllabus, adopted in 1939 included the following:
Primary land planes 14 weeks 74 hours
Basic training(intermediate land planes) 5.5 weeks 45 hours
Specialised training 6.5 weeks 88 hours
When the above training was completed, the pilots went to operational training where they actually were introduced to the AC they would fly in combat. That training might include fifty hours of gunnery traning and 30 to 50 hours of team tactics before they became combat ready.

 

[Glider]

Fleet Air Arm training in 1940 was
8 weeks 50 hours elemenatary training
16 weeks SFTS training which seems to equate to the USN Basic and Specialised Training before going to OTU which I am afraid I know nothing about re length or number of hours.
The two combined give 24 weeks to the RN and 26 to the USN which isn't that different. I admit though I cannot see the RN's OTU lasting anywhere near as 80 - 100 hours
It would be interesting to know what the USN training was once war broke out. After all in 1939 they were working in times of peace.

 

[Glider]

Interesting info. According to Lundstrom in "The First Team" the USN training syllabus, adopted in 1939 included the following:
Primary land planes 14 weeks 74 hours
Basic training(intermediate land planes) 5.5 weeks 45 hours
Specialised training 6.5 weeks 88 hours
When the above training was completed, the pilots went to operational training where they actually were introduced to the AC they would fly in combat. That training might include fifty hours of gunnery traning and 30 to 50 hours of team tactics before they became combat ready.

Re the period spent by USN Pilots in OTU in 1939 I have found one interesting fact. In 1939 all USN pilots spent a lot of time in OTU as all pilots had to cover all aspects of a carrier pilot. They were all trained in air to air fighting, dive bombing, recce and torpedo dropping. It wan't until May 1941 when the clouds of war were gathering that the USN realised that they needed to streamline pilot training to spead throughput. From that time pilots were assigned future roles and were trained for that role.

What I have yet to find is any description as to what the amended training was for each role. Clearly the overall time was less than in 1939, but I am still digging.

If anyone has any clues as to where to look, I am open to any suggestions

 

[renrich]

In Lundstrom and it shows how wartime affected the amount of experience in the USN's fighting squadrons:

Wings before 1940: 3500 to 1000 flight hours
Wings 1940: 1000 to 600 flight hours
Wings 1941: 600 to 300 flight hours
Wings 1942: about 300 flight hours

At Coral Sea about 50% of the Fighting Squadrons were composed of pilots trained in 1941
At Midway about 62% of the Fighting Squadrons were composed of pilots trained in 1941

When one thinks of it a carrier pilot with between 300 and 600 hours of experience is not exactly a veteran pilot, considering the amount of time needed in learning carrier landings and navigation skills.

 

[harvard1078]

I'm trying to track down information on pilot training in the USA during 1940. I'm writing a biograpy about a man that was on the course 42E. He left Britian around September 1940 and was on course 42E I believe under the Arnold scheme.

 

[Glider]

This link should help

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/raf-pilot-training-ww2-26347.html

 

[stona]

When my father finished "prescribed course of training for naval aviators" in the US in June 1953 he had 350.7 hours on all types. Unlike his later Royal Navy log books the US one does not total by type and It would take a while to work out how many hours he had on what.

Back in the UK he did 20.4 hours instrument training on Oxfords which must have been a come down after the Hellcats and Bearcats he'd been flying in the States.

That was followed by 1.40 hours on a Firefly. A note in his log book says this was to familiarise with "handbrake and opposite torque to USN A/C". The Oxford is of course a twin.

Finally he was let loose on a Sea Fury with a total of over 370 hours on SNJ,F8F-1,F6F-5,Oxford and Firefly.

Incidentally,despite numerous "aerodrome dummy deck landings" (ADDLs) he had over 450 hours before he actually landed on an RN carrier. It would have been the first time he'd landed on a carrier since he was in the US!

Steve

 

[VBF-13]

When my father finished "prescribed course of training for naval aviators" in the US in June 1953 he had 350.7 hours on all types. Unlike his later Royal Navy log books the US one does not total by type and It would take a while to work out how many hours he had on what.

He had enough, Steve, believe me, and in the classroom, too. Where did your Dad train on the F6F-5? Just curious...

 

[stona]

His log book is stamped by VF-ATU 100 NAAS Kingsville Texas. Is this an administrative thing?
There are 6 deck landings on USS Monterey before the entries for the F6F-5 .The F6F-5 entries culminate with 8 landings,also on USS Monterey. I know he was at Pensacola,which is where the USS Monterey was,but don't think he was ever in Texas.
I have letters sent to my mother from Pensacola but not Kingsville.
Cheers
Steve

 

[VBF-13]

Steve, thanks. And for the carrier-qualifications. I was just curious about this, your Dad coming in just a tad after mine. Plus, your Dad being Royal Navy! Interesting. But, as they say, we're two countries separated by a common language, lol.

Anyway, my Dad carrier-qualified in 1944 in Lake Michigan on an SBD, then went off to the F6Fs. But, same routine, 8 landings and take-offs. Your Dad got his wings in Pensacola, most likely. Just a young man, that had to be one of his proudest moments. I know it was for my Dad.

 

[stona]

He was in the US from April '52 until June '53. I have no idea why RN officers were still training in the US so long after the war. I wonder if it had anything to do with the situation in Korea?
Anyway the training he recieved in the States was obviously considered adequate by the Royal Navy as,apart from the 40 hours instrument training in the UK,he went almost dirctly from the Hellcat to the Sea Fury.

I have a photo of my dad receiving his wings from a US Admiral and still have his certificate from the Department of the Navy. He does look both proud and pleased with himself in that photo!

Cheers

Steve

 

[NickFenton]

Guys,

Jumping back to the original thread, my Father joined 11 EFTS on 5th October 1940 and was expected to fly solo within 10 hours, 12 at the max. and then had a further 20 hours solo flying time before being posted to SFTS on 13th November 1940. This was training for both bomber crews and fighters.

He was at 2 SFFTS until 12th April 1941 and then posted to 13 OTU.

Regards,

Nick
KenFentonsWar.com

 

[JJReace]

Hi Glider
Was not sure if you have done this already or not. Was just wondering whether you had a reference for the training hours reports in your original post.
Thanks