Reggiane RE-2007 - What if?

[DAVIDICUS]

Does anyone know what performance the RE-2007 was expected to have if the Junkers Jumo 004 turbojet had been made available?

Can you share any info whatsoever on this plane?

As always, thanks.

 

[kiwimac]

Davidicus,

Couple of sites, first one:

http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Re2007/Re2007.htm

Engine: 1x Junkers Jumo 004 turbojet
Wing Span: 9.5 m
Length: 9 m
Height: 2.93 m
Weight: Empty 2,500 kg / Loaded 3,540 kg
Maximum Speed: 1,050 km/h
Ceiling: 15,000 m
Range: 1,500 km
Crew: 1
Armament: 4x 20mm cannons
History:

Detail design of the Re 2007 single-seat jet fighter began in October 1943. With component manufacturing began shortly afterwards. All design work had to be based on the known dimension of the Junkers Jumo 004 turbojet engine, it's intended power plant, but could progress no further by January 1944 owing to to lack of detailed information relating to the engine and it's installation.

Hauptmann Bohm, the Luftwaffe's senior engineer at the Reggiane plant, could obtain no definitive decision concerning the supply of the two Junkers Jumo 004B's which had been promised by the Germans. On the 7th January 1944, Roberto Longhi wrote to Count Caproni, requesting that he intercede with the German authorities as design work had stalled. In the meantime, much of the rear fuselage, wing spars, ribs, undercarriage and the cockpit were built but because of the inability to obtain adequately detailed information relating to the engine work once again stalled.

In October 1944 the completed components were moved to the Caproni plant at Taliedo, where they would remain until the end of the war, when they were then shipped to the U.S.A.

It is interesting to note that the two Jumo 004B engines were sent to Italy, but were said to have been sold for scrap in Milan immediately after the collapse of the German forces in Italy.

Second one:

Specifications
Engine 1x Junkers Jumo 004 turbojet
Max Speed 1,050 kph
Ceiling 15,000 m
Range 1,500 km
Crew 1
Armament 4x20 mm cannons

Source: http://www.comandosupremo.com/Re2007.html

Kiwimac

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

man i hate metric...........

 

[DAVIDICUS]

Kiwimac,

Whoa. According to the site, it could do 652mph.

That seems a wee bit optomistic.

Good info though, thanls.

 

[CharlesBronson]

 

[DAVIDICUS]

Charles,

No doubt from a scary dream of an allied pilot.

 

[delcyros]

The high speed figures are suspect. The high ceiling and the range, too. With the fuel consumption of a Jumo-004, the weaponry and the weights in mind I see no justification for these high numbers. But I might be wrong in this. The slightly swept back wing could allow a crit mach between 0.85 and 0.9, depending on aspect ratio and so on. 652 mp/h are theoritcly possible at low altitudes, only. At this altitudes, the drag by air is huge, I doubt that the 890 Kp thrust of a single Jumo-004 B could overcome the drag at 550-580 mp/h at low altitudes. The thrust/weight ratio of the Re-2007 would be at around 0.288-0.310, this is quite a very good number and close to P-80 and He-162 (...and better than the Me-262, Ar-234 B and Meteor MK III).
However, an amazing plane, looking very advanced!

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yes but you have to remember by the time it would have entered service the meteor would be at the Mk.6 to 8 stage when it could take out anything out there, and we'd have other designs as well...........

 

[delcyros]

The Meteor MK IV was great (superior to the Me-262 A), indeed. But it saw service from late 1945 on. F MK VI and F MK VIII are even later planes. Pretty late or isn´t it? And I doubt that a twin engined Meteor could match a single engined Re-2007 (or a single engined P80 or He-162). And in late 1945/early 1946 you could have to deal with a Jumo-004 H driven Re-2007, which could easily exceed 600 mp/h...
The D.H. Vampire on the other hand would be a hard match, agreed.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

ok firstly when refering to the meteor and most other post war planes you use arabic numerals not roman (so it's the Mk.8 not Mk.VIII), and secondly the meteor was very manouverable, morso than the vampire which was a ground attack jet, the meteor even took the world speed record being the first aircraft past 600mph, i don't know what timespan we're loking at for the RE-2007 for it to come into service but for the meteor to reach 600mph we're not looking that far past WWII..........

 

[delcyros]

My mistake with the numbers.
Well, Lanc, the first plane to exceed 600 mp/h in level flight was the Me-163 A. It reached 1003,4 Km/h (roghly 623 mp/h) in late 1941. Hey, it was faster than the Meteor MK IV at it´s world breaking flight! Even with brute force you cannot push the speed of any Meteor beyond 620 mp/h. No matter what´s the engine.
As far as I know the manoverability of the Meteor depends on the speed. At low speeds it could outturn the Vampires, at high speeds I am sure that it would have been outturned even by a Me-262.

 

[DAVIDICUS]

An excerpt from my earlier post above.

"It is interesting to note that the two Jumo 004B engines were sent to Italy, but were said to have been sold for scrap in Milan immediately after the collapse of the German forces in Italy."

Apparently, by January 1944, they were just waiting for the engine so they could finish.

 

[delcyros]

Has anybody noticed that the first Re-2007 picture looks more like a slightly modified F-86 Sabre?
I have some doubts about the engines. They may have been sent to italy but they would have been of limited worth for a Re-2007 project. The Jumo engineers at Dessau were ordered to take some parts from inside of the engine and put them on it. This drasticly changed it´s shape. Original 60 cm in diameter would change to an oval of 60 x 80 cm. Surprisingly the industrie wasn´t informed by this change (and surely not Caproni). This is why the Horten brothers had to redesign their Ho-IX jet plane as soon as they got their engines (in mid 1944). I estimate that this would happen to the Re-2007, too. Esspecially if it was designed around a Jumo-004.

 

[DAVIDICUS]

I think you meant to say the F-86 looks like a slightly modified Re 2007!

 

[delcyros]

Umm, I am nearly sure that the artist had a F-86 in mind. Look at the exhaust or the canopy. No italian design or isn´t it?

 

[DAVIDICUS]

A drawing from the design boards of the Re-2007

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

oh god if CC reads this he's gonna claim that the designers of the F-86 copied the italains an he'll try and use the fact that the F-86 was so goo dto claim the RE-2007 would have been amazing and i'll get really annoyed.........

thans for pointing that out guys........

 

[red admiral]

Aircraft designers often arrive at similar solutions to the same problems, so their aircraft look decidedly similar. It doesn't look much like a F86 apart from the general configuration. Its an artist's impression anyway, not the real thing. The tail definitely looks Italian though.

 

[delcyros]

It is going to be even more suspect with this drawing. The canopy don´t fit to the artists picture (who actually took a F-86/F-84 canopy and not the italian one). This underlines that he was very much influenced by the F-86. I see more problems in this design: With the jet engine moved into the center of the fuselage there is no space for the fuel tanks left. Calculate the average fuel consumtion of a Jumo 004 B (around 1,44 Kg/(100 %thrust)sec.) and the given range you would need between 1000 kg and 1350 kg fuel (depends on altitude and drag). Where should it been placed in this design? In the wings? Impossible, such a small wing cannot bear the complete fuel, even if it bears only one third of that fuel the wing would become very thick (increasing drag and reducing critical Mach speed).

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and incresing drag further, that's a very good point del...........