Reggiane's Re.2005: The Archer

[jim]

thank you Mr Elmas . Very interesting . i wish i could read the text...

 

[krieghund]

Open it in Google Chrome and let it translate it.

 

[Elmas]

Something said by the enemies: Group Captain W.G.G. Duncan Smth, D.S.O., D.F.C., in "Spitfire into battle", John Murray (Publishers), Paperback edition 2002, pag. 173-4:

"I returned to Lecce, as this airfield was only slightly damaged and I tought it would do very well as a second string, in case Grottaglie became overcrowded. After a pleasant meal of spaghetti with the Italian pilots, I took the opportunity of inspecting the Macchi 205s and a couple of Re 2001/5s (sic) I found parked near the flight offices. The Re 2001/5 s were fairly new to the Italian Air Force, and only a handful had been built. They had a wing shape very similar to the Spitfire, a powerful engine and were armed with four cannons (sic). Having had a dog-fight with one of them, I am convinced we would have been hard pressed to cope in our Spitfires operationally, if the Italians or Germans had had a few Squadrons equipped with these aircraft at the beginning of the Sicily campaign ot in operations from Malta. Fast, and with an excellent manoeuvrability, the Re 2001/5 was althogeter a superb aeroplane. Tough I didn't get a chance to fly one, I did manage to fly the Macchi 205 and the Me 109G. Neither of these aircraft measured up to the capabilities of the Re 2001/5 series in manoeuvrability or rate of climb. (omissis) It is a pity, however, that no Re 2001/5 survive to this day, because they were fine examples of the Italian engineering craftmanship."

 

[tomo pauk]

Well, a DB-605 copy with real 1475 HP, on a plane that has a wings similar to Spitfire and three cannons looks like potent warbird, no wonder RAF pilot was impressed. It would took him a Spit VIII to obtain a nominal advantage in performance, since the most likely plane it flew (Spit Vc?) doesn't compare well with the Italian.

Luckily, Germans themselves didn't have DB-601s/605s to spare.

 

[Juha]

Hello Tomo
in fact all D-S's claims from July 42 onwards were got while flying Spit IXs, that incl all his Med claims. So that makes 2005 even more impressive.
Juha

 

[tomo pauk]

Then I stand corrected

 

[krieghund]

It's fortunate the "SIX" series didn't get into production. The G56, MC206 and RE2006. And that Germany didn't realize they should have diverted their production to the 5 and 6 series. Just like the Allies with their UK Merlin and US Mustang hot combo the axis could have done the DB605/DB603 into the Italian airframes. I will post info on the six series shortly.

 

[Sagittario64]

as obselete as italy's air force was during the start of wwii (CR.32, CR.42, G.50, C.200), i have to give them thumbs up for coming up with and implementing designs like the Re.2005 and G.55 after a span of only 3 years. to me thats pretty fast for a somewhat complete transistion from biplane fighters to sleek, high-performance, and heavily armed monoplane fighters

 

[johnbr]

Found this info on the net.
Re 2005 was used also in R.S.I. (Italian fascist Social Republic-costituited in the north of italy after Allies invasion)with good result and by luftwaffe.About Luftwaffe's use of the Sagittario many say that it was used to defend Bucharest and Berlin; their fate thereafter being unknown.At least one Re 2005 was captured by the U.S., and the fuselage of one Re 2005 survives in the Museo Aeronautico Caproni di Taledo in Milano, been restored by GAVS.

 

[Juha]

Hello John
a nice picture, thanks for that.
But IMHO the combat use of 2005 after Sept 43 is just a myth, not the only one floating in the net. IIRC there was only one LW unit using 2005, that was a target unit operating in Northern Italy, we know that 3 of its 2005s were damaged during USAAF bombing raid against its airfield.

Juha

 

[Tante Ju]

granted the bf 109 already had a cannon in the wings in the e model, but in the f model those were deleted in favor of a 1 cannon 2 machine guns layout. the 20mm cannon packs for the field kits solved this problem outwardly, but the increased drag and strain on the wings affected performance adversely, and the 3 cannon uparmoured 109s were generally seen as fodder for the p-51s if flown by non-expert pilots. the reggianes wing was designed with 20mm cannons already in the wings, or were designed well enough with provisions for them in mind.

Wing cannon (built-in) has show no worth of note advantage over gondola cannon, sorry.. Maybe speed is few km/h more.. say 3-4 km/h win, if installation is very good. Weight is same, recoil is same, so stress is same. Most wing was simple too small in height to accept cannon without some bulge or something of effect, and cannon barrel is again too long so it has to stick out of wing. All these cause drag, same or marginal less than a well designed aerodyanmic fairing.

 

[Vincenzo]

Hello John
a nice picture, thanks for that.
But IMHO the combat use of 2005 after Sept 43 is just a myth, not the only one floating in the net. IIRC there was only one LW unit using 2005, that was a target unit operating in Northern Italy, we know that 3 of its 2005s were damaged during USAAF bombing raid against its airfield.

Juha

commonly is reported that a few (3/6) flying with ANR colours

 

[tomo pauk]

Wing cannon (built-in) has show no worth of note advantage over gondola cannon, sorry.. Maybe speed is few km/h more.. say 3-4 km/h win, if installation is very good. Weight is same, recoil is same, so stress is same. Most wing was simple too small in height to accept cannon without some bulge or something of effect, and cannon barrel is again too long so it has to stick out of wing. All these cause drag, same or marginal less than a well designed aerodyanmic fairing.

Maybe it's >15 km/h speed loss, for two gondolas?
As for a wing being of too small a height, even the 109's wing was tick enough (ticker than Spitfire's?). It took only a small bulge to make space for the bulkiest part of the MG FF - the drum. Drum's diameter was as big as two cannons stacked one above another.

added: For especially clean cannon wing installations, check out the Japanese and, indeed, Italian fighters (G.55 Re.2005). All for not that tick wings. Tempest is also neat, with only small bulges for it's cannons. Mustang Ia also seem like a good job.

Attached is the table from Soviet tests of the Bf-109G-2, both with without gondola-mounted cannons.

 

[Sagittario64]

Thats right. plus there is stress for gondolas. youre placing weight externally on the wing, instead of internally among the structure of the wing

 

[Sagittario64]

The re.2005s only protrudance for the wing cannons was a small bulge on the top rear part of the wing

 

[Elmas]

It has to be said that, due to the small amounts produced, only the best of the best of the best Pilots of the Regia Aeronautice were allowed to put their hands on the Serie 5 fighters.....
A brand new MC 205 arrived in an Italian base and one of the Pilots, Sergente Maggiore Luigi Gorrini asked the ferry pilot how to handle it.
"No problem, she's just a 202", was the very short reply....
A few seconds later Gorrini took off to intercept a formation over Rome and he returned with a B 24 and a P 38 confirmed, plus a P 38 damaged...

 

[Juha]

commonly is reported that a few (3/6) flying with ANR colours

Hello Vincenzo
might well be so, I was commenting mainly the alleged LW combat use of 2005.

Juha

 

[Sagittario64]

Well several sources say that the ANR 2005s were used for training only. for a series 5, its not a glorious end

 

[Sagittario64]

REGIA AERONAUTICA ITALIANA
i found this wonderful site for italian aircraft throughout history