Schweiks Sim vs. Real Flying Debate Thread

pbehn · Jul 27, 2018

CORSNING said:
Its a simple little thing, flying slow on take off and hitting an air
pocket (I like calling it that). Your stomach rises up into your
chest because you are not wearing a g-suite. A smile crosses
your face because you realize that no roller coaster in the world
will give you that feeling of drifting back up on a motorized cloud
afterwards like that. Sims have their purpose but.....Its a simple little thing,
one of so very, very many that you just can't get on the ground.

Motorcycle racing sim doesn't simulate …...The front tyre sliding, the back tyre sliding or slipping under power, suspension bottoming, front wheel locking and skipping. It doesn't simulate the lack of grip in the cold which slowly goes after a couple of corners, or two laps if its really cold, nor the fall off in grip as the tyres overheat on a hot day. You get no sensation of the effect of camber or gradient. I am sure they can programme all these things into the computer but there is no way to actually sense them. I presume flying is the same, I am sure todays engineers could produce a sim to replicate the lot but it would cost more than building a short racing circuit and buying a bike.

XBe02Drvr · Jul 27, 2018

CORSNING said:
no roller coaster in the world
will give you that feeling of drifting back up on a motorized cloud

I've experienced both (brief) negative Gs and (slightly longer) positive Gs on a roller coaster, though I much prefer a "roll your own" coaster of the winged variety.
Cheers,
Wes

pbehn · Jul 27, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
I've experienced both (brief) negative Gs and (slightly longer) positive Gs on a roller coaster, though I much prefer a "roll your own" coaster of the winged variety.
Cheers,
Wes

Flying to Saudi in a DC 10 we hit "turbulence" caused by thermals over the Alps (the pilot explained). The plane dropped as it hit a pocket (negative) and climbed as it left (positive). It wasn't particularly dramatic though with no seatbelt I would probably have lifted out of my seat. The problem was the huge group of boarding school children screaming "weeeeeeeeeeee" every time it happened as if on a roller coaster, they were scaring the hell out of many green faced nervous flyers around me.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 27, 2018

CORSNING said:
Sir, I absolutely agree. I was simply adding a little dramatization to a flight in a Piper.
And I do not know where you are going with this, but the most dramatic sim in
the world can not give you the feel I described before or the true feeling you get
in enemy territory where you better have a good handle on your 1 through 12.

Why is everyone sensitive?

I wasn't going anywhere with it except elaborating on what a G-Suit does.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 27, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
I've experienced both (brief) negative Gs and (slightly longer) positive Gs on a roller coaster, though I much prefer a "roll your own" coaster of the winged variety.
Cheers,
Wes

Used to love doing negative G maneuvers in the Hawk. Unlock my inertial reals, and float up out of the seat.

pbehn · Jul 27, 2018

I think negative G is not so serious as positive is, the blood is going to your brain not away from it?

Schweik · Jul 27, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
I bet you could ... Give your nether regions a squeeze every time you pull back on the stick!

Denials notwithstanding, this sounds like the voice of experience!
But thanks, I'll pass.

S

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 27, 2018

pbehn said:
I think negative G is not so serious as positive is, the blood is going to your brain not away from it?

Negative G does not feel like the weight of the world is coming down on you.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 27, 2018

I just realized my last post really had nothing to do with your post...

Having said that negative g's can have negative impacts as well. You can suffer from "red out" which is caused by the blood rushing to your head, causing your vision to go red. You can also suffer from burst blood vessels in the head and eyes, as well as lose consciousness.

The Effects of Negative G-Force on the Body

XBe02Drvr · Jul 27, 2018

pbehn said:
we hit "turbulence" caused by thermals over the Alps

Sounds like you hit mountain wave over the Alps. Thermals would be pretty hard put to reach DC-10 cruising altitudes, as winds aloft would almost surely dissipate them long before they got there. Winds aloft, OTOH, are ripe for the formation of mountain waves, and they easily "stack" themselves in layers into the stratosphere. They can give you quite a ride.
Cheers,
Wes

pbehn · Jul 27, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
Sounds like you hit mountain wave over the Alps. Thermals would be pretty hard put to reach DC-10 cruising altitudes, as winds aloft would almost surely dissipate them long before they got there. Winds aloft, OTOH, are ripe for the formation of mountain waves, and they easily "stack" themselves in layers into the stratosphere. They can give you quite a ride.
Cheers,
Wes

In such things I am a complete layman XB, I just remember the pilot and lights warning to fasten belts and the pilot saying it was thermals over the Alps. In every case we dropped, recovered level flight and then suddenly soared upwards (same sensation as in a lift). The pilot had a plane full of people (including schoolkids) its what he said, maybe that has been approved as the best thing to say lol

XBe02Drvr · Jul 27, 2018

pbehn said:
, I just remember the pilot and lights warning to fasten belts and the pilot saying it was thermals over the Alps.

Much simpler and less ominous sounding than an explanation of mountain wave behavior.

XBe02Drvr · Jul 29, 2018

CORSNING said:
the most dramatic sim in
the world can not give you the feel I described

The Eastern 727 simulator I worked on after I got out of the Nav had 15 feet of vertical travel on its hydraulic jacks. It could do a pretty convincing job of "putting your stomach up against your heart". So much so that they had to limit the violence of the vertical action, as it was loosening the anchors in the concrete footings that supported it.
Story was, that TWA out in St Louis had a sim jump right out of its moorings trying to follow a particularly violent stall/departure that some trainee blundered into. Puts a whole new perspective on the expression "crashing the sim"!
Cheers,
Wes

CORSNING · Jul 29, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
The Eastern 727 simulator I worked on after I got out of the Nav had 15 feet of vertical travel on its hydraulic jacks. It could do a pretty convincing job of "putting your stomach up against your heart". So much so that they had to limit the violence of the vertical action, as it was loosening the anchors in the concrete footings that supported it.
Story was, that TWA out in St Louis had a sim jump right out of its moorings trying to follow a particularly violent stall/departure that some trainee blundered into. Puts a whole new perspective on the expression "crashing the sim"!
Cheers,
Wes

Sir, I stand corrected.

XBe02Drvr · Jul 29, 2018

CORSNING said:
Sir, I stand corrected.

Hey, lay off this "Sir" crap! That's for officers, not enlisted guys like me.
Cheers,
Wes

CORSNING · Jul 29, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
Hey, lay off this "Sir" crap! That's for officers, not enlisted guys like me.
Cheers,
Wes

Understood Chief, won't happen again.

XBe02Drvr · Jul 29, 2018

CORSNING said:
Understood Chief, won't happen again.

"Down and twenty, Sailor! NOW!"

BiffF15 · Jul 29, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
The Eastern 727 simulator I worked on after I got out of the Nav had 15 feet of vertical travel on its hydraulic jacks. It could do a pretty convincing job of "putting your stomach up against your heart". So much so that they had to limit the violence of the vertical action, as it was loosening the anchors in the concrete footings that supported it.
Story was, that TWA out in St Louis had a sim jump right out of its moorings trying to follow a particularly violent stall/departure that some trainee blundered into. Puts a whole new perspective on the expression "crashing the sim"!
Cheers,
Wes

Wes,

United in the last few years installed quite a few new sims under a new standard that involved stronger reinforcements. They had to dig out the old supports, bore through the foundation, then make them stronger. I would think you aren't alone in thinking one could literally crash a sim.

Cheers,
Biff

XBe02Drvr · Jul 30, 2018

BiffF15 said:
Wes,

United in the last few years installed quite a few new sims under a new standard that involved stronger reinforcements. They had to dig out the old supports, bore through the foundation, then make them stronger. I would think you aren't alone in thinking one could literally crash a sim.

Cheers,
Biff

IIRC, that Eastern sim had a "U" shaped poured footing of steel reinforced high tensile concrete 4 feet thick and 20 feet wide under the floor and the motion system "feet" were secured to it by humongoid bolts that went all the way down to a steel plate under the concrete. Within the 90 days I worked there the bolts began "working" in the concrete. Oooopps!
Cheers,
Wes

bobbysocks · Jul 30, 2018

pbehn said:
I think negative G is not so serious as positive is, the blood is going to your brain not away from it?

just scream very loudly.....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8i04jBLI5I

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