Schweiks Sim vs. Real Flying Debate Thread
- Thread starter Schweik
- Start date
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Yeah, but the CVR and FDR can paint a picture of it...
Smokey Stover
Banned
Well as they say assumption is the mother of all failures. I competed in two seasons of Junior Ginetta GP. Then became third test driver at Volvo, during their British touring car pre season testing. A simulation may possibly be of help for some, and can cover many hours of training and data collection. But that's nothing one cant do by manually driving around a racetrack. Plus back in the early 90's sims were not as advanced as they are today. In my case simulation consisted of lying in an empty bath tub and closing my eyes while using visualisation techniques to memorise the circuit, as well as hand/foot coordination. Im no pilot so my opinion about flight sims may be way off. But if you want to talk shop about motor racing im all in....
I take it you have never watched an episode of Aircrash investigation before? And no offence but how about an episode of reality.... But im sure it must be me talking to the wrong pilots perhaps who knows.
Is that in reference to my post?
That's assuming there ARE black boxes. Major passenger airline accidents are pretty rare these days, so that means the vast majority of accidents that do happen are black box free aircraft. Small turbo and piston commuters and freighters still don't carry them, and neither does most of general aviation, despite the NTSB's ambition to make them universal and mandatory like ELTs.
Cheers,
Wes
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
I have not gone through all 6 pages of this but will comment anyways. I have played air combat and flying sims since 1996 and still mess around with a few. I also grew up in the right hand seat of small aircraft as it was father/son time on sundays. there are sims then there are SIMS. the garden variety gaming stuff can have some merit. you can learn use of controls and how to coordinate them to do various maneuvers. it is one step better than reading how to do them. but just how real these sims are? I get into this conversation in the gaming forums where hot shots think they can jump behind the stick of a real plane and do just as well because they have logged hundreds of hours in IL-2, War Thunder, X-plane, etc. while these have good graphics and are enjoyable they are no substitute for the real thing and thinking they are can get you killed. I do not say this lightly or to poke fun but there are people who have used these as flight training and to some disastrous results. the class of aircraft known as part 103 ultralights do not require a pilots license. they are heavily restricted at far as weigh and speed of the aircraft, range, time of operation, etc. since it doesn't require a certificate many would be ULers are lulled into the notion they don't need any real training. some use X-plane or the like instead of shelling out cash for instruction. when I was in the market for my UL I looked at a Rans Coyote that "needed a little work". the guy tried to take off in a plowed farmers field that was a tad too short for the tall trees at the end. he tried to pull up to get over the trees, stalled, and pranged $8000 worth of plane onto the ground from 30 feet. the boy was lucky enough to walk away without a scratch the plane was not so lucky. when I asked him about his flight training....a gaming sim. his is not an isolated story either. I have heard several people tell me that was their main mode of training and some of them have had similar mishaps. others have been lucky...so far. unless you are in a professional multi-million dollar sim like the airlines use you do not get to experience the dynamics of true flight. with gaming sims you do not get depth perception, ground effect, gusting winds, effects of G-force, etc. even the flight models are skewed. developers dummy things down to appeal to the masses and so players will not get frustrated. one of the things I do when I try a new game is to stall, spin, and do a snap roll to see how the planes handle. very seldom are the flight models true to life especially concerning snap rolls...most cant do them. planes that traditionally had violent stall tendencies are much tamer. so take the same plane out in real life and stall her will give you one very unpleasant surprise. I do like dueling in the virtual skies and doing free flights over places I will probably never see. sitting on my living room floor I can do some impressive 3 point landings in cubs, spitfires, 109s and the like but before sit my behind in something that is going to take my feet off of the ground I will be getting some dual time with a live certified instructor in that type of ac.
[QUOTE="bobbysocks, post: 1419773, member: 33899"Before I sit my behind in something that is going to take my feet off of the ground I will be getting some dual time with a live certified instructor in that type of ac.[/QUOTE]
Wisdom of the ages!
Wisdom of the ages!
You do realize DerAdler IS an investigator??
Sort of. I do investigations for my company. I don't work for the Feds (yet)...
I also happen to own every episode of that show. Downloaded them from Amazon. Big fan of it.
Being an investigator is not about who you work for, but about your drive, your expertise, your experience, and your innate curiosity.
Cheers,
Wes
That is what interests me so much about it. Piece all the facts and info back together. Find out why, and try and make things safer if possible.
Remember the movie, "Pushing Tin"? I vote for a sequel titled: "Kicking Tin". It could be a detective-style show that would attract the "CSI" crowd.
Cheers,
Wes
lol
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I did the reverse: I learned to fly when I was a teenager back when the only "flight sim" out there, was a Cox gas powered model airplane on a tether and the only arcade games were Pinball. Ok, actually there were other gas powered model airplanes, but I had a Cox P-51, so I used that as an example!
Anyway, I used the experience and lessons given to me over the years to my advantage when the age of computers and flight sims came along. Seriously, knowing how to fly BEFORE running flight sims gives a person one hell of an advantage.
Remember the ATC 510? It was quite the thing in my early flying days, just in time for my instrument rating.
Cheers,
Wes
Mine was profile YAK 9 stunter with a McCoy Red Head .35. It had enough thrust offset to do overhead figure 8s without falling in on me. When I graduated from TD school and got orders to my first duty station, I had to pass it on to an incoming tech school student.GrauGeist said:
Cheers.
Wes
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Yes!
I haven't thought about that in ages but they were around back in the day, but they were for the serious crowd.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Mine was profile YAK 9 stunter with a McCoy Red Head .35. It had enough thrust offset to do overhead figure 8s without falling in on me. When I graduated from TD school and got orders to my first duty station, I had to pass it on to an incoming tech school student.
Cheers.
Wes[/QUOTE]
I didn't fly my P-51 much. Dad went to start it one time and it fired up and nailed his finger, so he lost interest in helping me fly the thing.
So I ended up pulling the motor out and put it unto an old "Prop Rod" my Uncle had given me.
(Photo is the exact toy I had, but from an auction)
I did the same after I crashed my "Lil Jumpin Bean" for the umpteenth time and couldn't rebuild it any more, except I put the .049 Golden Bee on a pedestal on a boat. Went like a bat out of hell until it hit a rock.
Cheers,
Wes
