No great loss, those Cox and Wen Mac plastic models didn't fly all that well; overweight and underpowered. Balsa models flew so much better, and more important, were easier to repair.
Cheers,
Wes
Schweiks Sim vs. Real Flying Debate Thread
- Thread starter Schweik
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Cheers,
Wes
Smokey Stover
Banned
Really? Well in that case im even more amazed & confused by his statement. But then im guessing it has more to do with personal issues rather than factual. Im not being disrespectful, but the facts are out there. There are half a dozen well known cases of pilot error leading to fatal crashes... As well as computer error leading to pilots making bad decisions or simply no decisions.
View: https://youtu.be/GF1X2UitGSA
Like already said by others, sims(not flying arcades like warthunder) can be great tool for learning how to operate the aircraft and it's systems or how to react with failures.
i liked to fly an A320 in FS9 just to put the flight plan in, search for balises and try to learn how to use it's systems. But to get a feel of real warplanes (let it be moderns of older ) the sims will never will. I saw il2 being mentioned here, i consider this one like something intermediary between arcade and sims as the aircraft systems are not fully modeled and the response of the airplane is sometimes "strange". I flew in passenger seat in a STAMP and done some light aerobatics, the FEEL is what is completely missing in the sims, even with force feedback joystick, it's not the same, then there are the G's....aah the g's, even a small turn and you start to feel the pressure on the body, in il2 everyone flies like the pilots are made from steel, they do not feel anything so you see constant 10minutes furballs with continuous turns of more than 3 g's. totally realistic
Then i flew a simple Ulm, you could feel all airplane's reactions in the stick, feel the crosswinds, the reaction change when speed change, again, missing in all sims.
The only one "public" sim that comes close a professional simulator would be DCS (and also not for all planes and not all accurate because of military secrets).
In DCS the aircraft systems are fully modeled. just try the 51 in dcs and the 51 in il2 (the old -one as the 51 isn't modeled yet in the new il2) it's like riding on rails in il2 and goes to like "WTF is this?!?" in DCS.
i think there is a way to "ressent" what a WWII combat could be if you put DCS into this (but give it at least a good cockpit replica ):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vLKSmFKbKA&t=8s
i liked to fly an A320 in FS9 just to put the flight plan in, search for balises and try to learn how to use it's systems. But to get a feel of real warplanes (let it be moderns of older ) the sims will never will. I saw il2 being mentioned here, i consider this one like something intermediary between arcade and sims as the aircraft systems are not fully modeled and the response of the airplane is sometimes "strange". I flew in passenger seat in a STAMP and done some light aerobatics, the FEEL is what is completely missing in the sims, even with force feedback joystick, it's not the same, then there are the G's....aah the g's, even a small turn and you start to feel the pressure on the body, in il2 everyone flies like the pilots are made from steel, they do not feel anything so you see constant 10minutes furballs with continuous turns of more than 3 g's. totally realistic
Then i flew a simple Ulm, you could feel all airplane's reactions in the stick, feel the crosswinds, the reaction change when speed change, again, missing in all sims.
The only one "public" sim that comes close a professional simulator would be DCS (and also not for all planes and not all accurate because of military secrets).
In DCS the aircraft systems are fully modeled. just try the 51 in dcs and the 51 in il2 (the old -one as the 51 isn't modeled yet in the new il2) it's like riding on rails in il2 and goes to like "WTF is this?!?" in DCS.
i think there is a way to "ressent" what a WWII combat could be if you put DCS into this (but give it at least a good cockpit replica
):View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vLKSmFKbKA&t=8s
"Pilot error" and " frozen with fear" (the original comment) are NOT the same thing! Let's keep the curveballs out of this ballgame.
Cheers,
Wes
Pilot error is not freezing in fear at the controls...
Personal issues? Excuse me. You make unfounded statements, and I have personal issues. Maybe though you should try ti understand what you are talking about first.
You made two false statements, that I simply commented on. Maybe you need to man up, and stop being a snowflake. I think it is you who has the personal issues, starting with accepting criticism.
Smokey Stover
Banned
Well seeing as i was replying to someone else what do you think.....
I did reply to you separately.
Don't get snarky. I was asking a simple question.
Smokey Stover
Banned
And you need to stop talking to me like im some kind of idiot. Im amazed you have any association with aircraft safety when making claims such as that. Im guessing you didnt take part in too many real accident investigations....
If you have issues with me then come talk to me privately. But dont try to belittle me in front of your buddies. Only narcissists do that. Personally i dont care if you need your ego boosting, just dont use me to do it. I think maybe king of the hill syndrome is setting in. And it's getting boring.....
And thank you for proving my point for the whole world to see. I think you need to get some help. I'm not a mental health expert but I think you have some kind of inferiority complex.
First Smokey I have not once talked to you like you are an idiot. Correcting you is not belittling you. This is a message board. It is a learning community, where people exchange views, opinions and facts. People make incorrect statements all the time. We all do. And we all correct each other. It's what happens on a message board. Doing so is not talking to them like they are an idiot.
Secondly, in regards to the above statement you made two false statements.
1. Pilots today don't learn to fly the old school way.
2. Pilots freezing up in fear at the controls.
Both are wrong statements. All pilots even today start out the same way as they did 75 years ago. A lil single engine piston plane. Usually a Cessna of some sorts that uses a system of pulleys and cables to manipulate the flight controls. There is no automation in it. After that, all pilots are required to maintain proficiency at "flying" the aircraft.
I don't think you will find a case of pilots freezing at the controls in fear. That is just a false statement. Pilot error is not freezing at the controls. It's simply just an erroneous statement backed up by no facts whatsoever at all. Believe me you don't even see that in your "source" you cited in the TV show Crash Investigations. I own all of them, and not a single one has a pilot freezing at the controls in fear.
I don't completely disagree with you that we are becoming too reliant on automation. That's one of the reasons that when I fly I still enjoy using the old mechanic E6B and paper planning from time to time. So I don't lose those skills. That does not mean Automation is bad though. When properly used and functioning correctly, it actually makes flying safer. Why? Because when it's working properly it removes the human element. All humans make mistakes.
So again, all I did was address two false statements you made. I didn't do so in a condescending manner. I didn't talk to you like you are an idiot. You are the one with the personal issue here. You are the one who fired the first salvos. You are the one who time and time again gets upset when people question what you post. There is no need for that, this is a learning community. We all learn from each other. God knows I do. There are many people here with worlds of more experience than myself.
Now to address your attempt at personal insults to me. What's really getting boring is your inability to take criticism or be corrected. You show this trait over and over again, thread after thread. It's you that has the ego problem, not I.
I've been in the aviation industry for 18 years now. I've been a mechanic, an air crew member, and I am a pilot. Your right, I have not done that many investigations. I have moved into this part of the career field just over a year ago. But I have participated in a few investigations to date, and I have formal training and schooling in it. Investigations are done as a team with many various subject matter experts. I'm not the subject matter expert on everything, nor do I claim to be.
What are your credentials?
Stop taking things so personal. Get laid or something. I'll leave it at that.
Last edited:
I'm not the person with the ego issue.
Smokey Stover
Banned
You just dont like it because im not all up you're arse like everyone else. As for man issues. A man would resolve an issue one on one in private. So i call bs on that. It's strange how you are quick enough to call me derogatory names when the only time you ever comment on my posts is to point out faults. And i wouldnt mind, i have nothing against constructive criticism or inaccurate details. But we both know 99% of the time you're just knit picking. I understand you must get a kick from it. It must make you're day when you do find fault. But hey, if thats what it takes to feel good about yourself carry on. I have respect for those that have respect for me. Everything i say you call me out for being wrong or just stupid. I think you forget or maybe just ignore that a persons opinion does not always equal fact. Im not interested in getting into a knowledge battle with anyone. But at the same time im not going to be pacifist, or bow down to another persons perception of reality. If im wrong and stand to be corrected about something i except that. But im entitled to my beliefs the same as anyone else. Except i dont call people silly names or try to make them look bad because of their views. That's what freedom of speech is about.
Wow!
Smokey, believe me I don't "want you up my arse". If that's what you are into, by all means. I don't judge, and am all in for equality. Just not with me...
As for the rest of your post, you continue to prove my point. You are overly sensative, and you take things the wrong way. Go back and read the conversation. You started with the personal attacks and insults. Not me.
I called you a snowflake, because of how you are acting right now...
You are proving my point.
You made an erroneous statement. I responded. Not in a negative or bad way either. You got upset, as you always do. It's not just to me. Go follow every conversation here. Anytime ANYONE corrects you, you get upset, and then tell them to stop talking to you like you are an idiot, and throw out snarky snide insults. You really have some kind of personal issue you need to deal with.
It's your MO...
Seriously calm down.
It's your MO...
Seriously calm down.
Smokey Stover
Banned
You just dont like it because im not all up you're arse like everyone else. It's strange how you are quick enough to call me derogatory names when the only time you ever comment on my posts is to point out faults. And i wouldnt mind, i have nothing against constructive criticism or innacuracies. But we both know 99% of the time you're just knit picking. I understand you must get a kick from it. It must make you're day when you do find fault. But hey, if thats what it takes to feel good about yourself carry on. I have respect for those that have respect for me. Everything i say you call me out for being wrong or just stupid. I think you forget or maybe just ignore that a persons opinion does not always equal fact. Im not interested in getting into a knowledge battle with anyone. But at the same time im not going to be pacifist, or bow down to another persons perception of reality. If im wrong and stand to be corrected about something i except that. But im entitled to my beliefs the same as anyone else. Except i dont call people silly names or try to make them look bad because of their views. That's what freedom of speech is for.
I defer to your knowledge of aircraft accidents. But you called me out because you believe there has never been one single incident where the flight crew have been frozen in a panic situation that resulted in a fatal accident. Is that really what your saying? In all of aviation history there has never been one documented case? That was the crux of my argument you just attacked. You really do dislike me dont you? Is the blood boiling? lol So because i stick to my argument im a snowflake? Your childish. And i dont need to prove my credentials to anyone thank you very much. What, you think im going to make a list of my skills and achievements? Again, only a over inflated egotistical old screwball would do that.
But hey, enjoy your day
Oh and fyi. I got laid last night. And you couldnt even in your wildest wet dreams get close to being intimate with the calibre of beauty my gf possesses. Your a German living in the US right? Sorry, im just lmao thinking about the irony. Let me give you a tip. If you play with fire your gonna get burned. I didnt start this and i've tried more than once to clear the air. Be very very careful what you say to me in future.
Smokey Stover
Banned
Im not the one who has the problem. But i can remove myself from the situation. Do the adult thing to do seeing as im talking to a five year old...
Smokey Stover
Banned
lol You posted in the wrong place. This should be in the joke section.....
Read my edited message. Im not the one being childish...
Smokey, what a joke. Nice of you to go behind and throw in some more insults. Very adult like of you.
In fact you know what. You just took it too far. I will never tolerate someone insulting my wife or my family.
My apologies everyone, but I can only take so much...
