Shelf Of Doom/ Pt.1/48 He 111 conversion, FINISHED!!!

[Ohm-men]

I got some more work done on the He-111. It's a slow build, but this time huge progress was made.
I finished the interiour and added probably too much detail, oh well...I was enjoying myself and my model club held a "Modellers day" last saturday, so a whole day building...Couldn't say no, ofcourse

Here we are now. The interiour. I added all the benches and made seat belts for the 16 seats from Tamiya masking tape. Yup, that took me quiet some time...

To mke sure all the hard work wasn't in vain...

Some paint;

Then at last, glueing the fuselage halves. Had to clean the sides first as rebuilding a kit takes some extra effort...

Looking thru the exellent Aero Detail book on the He 111, I discovered that the "A-stand" (nose gun) was wrong for the H-10 variant, as this variant carried the MG FF cannon and had therefore a strengthened "Bola" for the nose, which ofcourse had a differnt shape and was shorter then the H-3 nose supplied with the kit....
After being in doubt if I would/wanted to correct this, I bit the bullet, grabbed the micro saw and cut the nose, hoping for the best.

Cutting the nose turned out good...Phew.... But that wasn't all, ofcourse... the profile of the "Bola" is also more pointy then the rounded H-3 type... Luckily the transparrent parts on the Monogram kit are quiet thick. So after some sanding, more sanding, polishing, adding the part with some PVA glue and putting on some cut Tamiya masking tape to make sure it looked ok-ish I came up with this. Still not a 100% right, but close enough. Still have to find a way to get rid of the hole for the MG 17/131 though....

That's all for now. I have to put on the last detail on my Brewster Bufallo for Group Build#25 if I want to make the deadline...So the He 111 will have to wait a bit.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Capt. Vick]

Excellent progress brother!

 

[Airframes]

Love it !

 

[Gnomey]

Lovely work so far!

 

[fubar57]

Nice additions and alterations.

Geo

 

[A4K]

Bloody brilliant mate!

What are you using for markings? Recently got my old decals from NZ (after 20 years!), including spare Slovak National markings from a 1:32 Matchbox Bf 109E. Size 26 x 26 mm. Drop us a PM if any good to you. (Yellow fuselage band might be good for ya too - 16 mm wide)

 

[Ohm-men]

Bloody brilliant mate!

What are you using for markings? Recently got my old decals from NZ (after 20 years!), including spare Slovak National markings from a 1:32 Matchbox Bf 109E. Size 26 x 26 mm. Drop us a PM if any good to you. (Yellow fuselage band might be good for ya too - 16 mm wide)

Thanks for the offer. But I have the old Aero Master 1/48th decal sheet for "Foreign He-111's" which has the full markins for the Slovak Air Force He 111 "S-82" (and also the Rumanian He-111 H-3 mentioned in this tread as well)So I'm covered on the decal front.

And thanks to Wojtek's exellent help with the pics of "S-82" I "think" I got an idea of the camo.
From what I gathered from these various pics (the last seam to have been taken in the same timeframe) I'm pretty sure now that S-83 carried std. Luftwaffe Bomber camo. So RLM 70/71 over 65. But all former Luftwaffe markings were painted out and replaced with Slovak markings. It "could" have been the Slovaks used "Khaki" (as used on the Avia build aircaft) for this. Seams plausible, as I asume paint stocks from the former CzechoSlovakian air force were availble, perhaps more plausible then actual German paint?
CZ A.F."Khaki" also resembles RLM 71 a bit (though a tad browner, less green) Could explain the differences in apearance. After a while the original Luftwaffe factory codes bleeded thru the coverer Khaki paint. (First code letter apears to have been a "H")
Then there are "regular" cloud shaped? spots over the fuselage and wings. My first assumption was regular wear and tear of paint, but they look regulary shaped imho.
In the last pics they look more faded then in the pics the side vieuws posted earlier (which were taken in an earlier time frame, I think as the airframe seams to have less wear).
I "assume" these could be remainants of winter camo. (After comparing them with other He's 111 on the eastern front, I came to this conclusion)
The water based winter camo wore off, but leaving a distinctive "shape" on the original paint.
This could explain why some decal researchers describe these spots as "RLM 74" grey.
Though the close up of the paratroopers entering the aircraft, show traces of what I think is worn off white distemper.
Anyway, all of this is just a guess. But I will try to go with it as it would expand my techniques, would look great on the model and can't be described as fiction (if done subtle enough) Ah, I never seam to make things easy for myself....Must be a character flaw

 

[Wurger]

Your assumption sounds interesting and is very likely. However you must remember that there were factories in Czechoslovakia that cooperated with the German ones and participated in assembling planes ( e.g... Messerschmitt Bf 109 ) and production of other war stuff. So it is very possible the RLM74/75/76 colours were available with no problem.

 

[Ohm-men]

Your assumption sounds interesting and is very likely. However you must remember that there were factories in Czechoslovakia that cooperated with the German ones and participated in assembling planes ( e.g... Messerschmitt Bf 109 ) and production of other war stuff. So it is very possible the RLM74/75/76 colours were available with no problem.

Thanks for the input wojtek. It's always nice to go a bit deeper into these discussions. (hence I like this site so much!!! The historical knowledge here is simply superb imho.)

Here is my line of thinking. Indeed there were Czech factories building German equipment, like AVIA, SKODA, etc.. Though my "guess" is that the "overpainting" of this particular Aircraft was done at unit level, most likely a airfield instead of a factory. Therefore former CZ. A.F. paint would be plausible.
And I'd like to take a bit of "modelers artistic freedom" in account for this as the Khaki will make things look a bit more intersting.
But, since the Slovak Air Force used mostly Luftwaffe aircraft, they would most likely have RLM paints at their disposal as well.
So, the theory of RLM 74 would also be possible. I guess we'll never know for sure. So taking the most "interesting route" from a modellers perspective might be a good way to go?!

 

[Wurger]

I agree. Your line of thinking is the proper one. The standard set RLM70/71/65 is very likely especially the bomber was given to the CAF by the Luftwaffe. However the camo layout doesn't seem to be the standard one used for the RLM70/71/65 colours. There is one more book about He-111 but I haven't had it yet. The main topic of the book is the H version of the bomber.

 

[Ohm-men]

Interesting. I have been puzzled as well by the camo lay out of this particular machine.
like you said, it certainly isn't the std. pattern found on most schematics.
I'm still wondering if these two H-10's given to the CAF were new machines or refurbished ones.
We know that both S-81 and S-82 were delivered in 1943. I think the Ghriel book has the factory output listed for that year. I asume that there were sattelite factories building He-111's for Heinkel (or at least sub contractors) For instance it's know that sub contractors sometimes used variations of RLM camo patterns. Though most apear later on when production was more hectic.
Though it would be interesting to know what variations of the particular factory He-111 camo pattern existed. It looks as if S-82 wore a "simplified" splinter pattern. The finer "spikes" seam to be missing.
(hence the possibility of a refurbished machine, though would it explain factory codes?)

But perhaps I'm drifting to far from the initial subject here. But I'm curious nevertheless.

 

[Wurger]

I have been looking around the net and the Slovak sites for more info. And I have found that...

"V roku 1942 zakúpili SVZ v Nemecku pre doplnenie a zmodernizovanie svojho leteckého parku dva bombardéry typu Heinkel He 111 H-10. Objednávka SVZ zahrňovala bod, v ktorom stálo, že bombardéry majú byť vybavené zdvojeným riadením, kompletnou výzbrojov a výstrojom. Verzia H-10 mala výzbroj tvorenú jedným kanónom MG FF ráže 20 mm, ktorý bol umiestnený v prednom strelisku a guľometom MG 15 ráže 15 mm, ktorý bol umiestnený v brušnej "vani" a bránil zadnú polosféru. Lietadlá tejto verzie boli poháňané motormi Jumo 211 F-2 a mali zosilnenú pancierovú ochranu posádky. Dva stroje tejto verzie prileteli začiatkom januára 1943 na letisko v Trenčianskych Biskupiciach. Stroj W.Nr. 5468 niesol na trupe označenie FM+WS a na spodnej strane krídiel mal písmená BV+BF, druhý stroj W.Nr. 5313 niesol na trupe písmená CO+PT a na spodnej strane krídiel bol bez označenia 1). Avšak stroje, ktoré dorazili, nemali požadované vybavenie. Postrádali bombový zameriavač a palubné zbrane. Naviac neboli v nich zastavané adekvátne motory k verzii H-10, ale staršie motory Junkers Jumo 211 A. Bombardéry sa preto nezaradili do zostavy 41. bombardovacej letky, ako sa predpokladalo. Tá bola vyzbrojená strojmi talianskej výroby Savoia Machetti SM-84 a SM-84bis. He 111 boli z hore uvedených dôvodov zaradené do kategórie školných a dopravných lietadiel.
Dňa 28. júla 1943 sa podľa rozkazu veliteľa SVZ dostal Heinkel He 111 W.Nr.5468 do užívania 51. transportnej letky, utvorenej 18. marca 1943 a dislokovanej na letisku Tri Duby, kde určitý čas pobudol. Letke velil stot. let. František Wágner.
Oba He 111 boli používané na rôzne účely - kuriérne lety, doprava vojenských hodnostárov a výcvik výsadkárov. Väčšinu času však strávili v škole padákových strelcov. Jej absolventi sa podrobovali výcviku podľa vzoru nemeckých Fallschirmjäger. Padáková škola vznikla v roku 1942 ako súčasť Školy leteckého dorastu v Trenčianskych Biskupiciach. Prvý turnus výcviku sa začal v novembri 1942 a pokračoval v Banskej Bystrici, kde bola Škola preložená 16. augusta 1943. Na praktický výcvik chodili na letisko Tri Duby. Absolventi nacvičovali jednotlivé i hromadné zoskoky na trenažéroch, znázorňujúcich bombardovacie lietadlo He 111, kde sa skákalo cez streleckú vežu spodného strelca. Ďalší trenažér znázorňoval palubu lietadla Junkers Ju 52, ktorú opúšťali výsadkári bočnými dverami. Ako sme už spomenuli, škole boli určitý čas pridelené oba slovenské He 111 H-10 a mimo to jedno lietadlo Ju 52/3m na praktické zoskoky. Oba He 111 dostali v dielňach školy nový "šat" a označenie. Stroj W.Nr. 5313 dostal označenie Leteckej školy S-82 a stroj W.Nr. 5468 dostal označenie S-81. U "S-82-ky" boli pôvodné výsostné znaky Luftwaffe na trupe pretreté farbou RLM 70. Vznikol tak široký pás, ktorý sa výrazne odlišoval od pôvodnej, už čiastočne vyblednutej kamufláže.... Žlté konce krídiel na spodných plochách boli ponechané. Trámové kríže Luftwaffe boli nahradené slovenskými výsostnými znakmi. Svastika na SOP bola pretretá a na jej miesto "prišlo" slovenské označenie. Na trupe oboch strojov sa objavil žltý pás, ktorý však nebol u obidvoch lietadiel umiestnený rovnako - u "S-81" bol bližšie k SOP."

According to that both planes were bought in 1942 as bombers for the 41st Bomber Squadron. Unfortunately these planes were delivered in January 1943 without the required equipment and were powered by older Jumo 211A engines instead of the Jumo 211F-2. No bombsights and armament attached. The W.Nr.5468 was marked with FM+WS code and the W.Nr.5313 - CO+PT. Because of the engine type, both He-111Hs came under the category of training and carrying planes.

The text with the bold font... Both He-111s got a new "livery" and markings made by the school workshop. The kite W.Nr.5313 got the marking of the flying school S-82 and the W.Nr. 5468 was marked with the S-81. The origin national Luftwaffe markings of the S-82 that were applied on the fuselage were overpainted with the RLM70 colour. Because of that there appeared a dark and wide band , distinguishing from the origin but already faded partially camouflage..... The yellow wing tips on the undersides were left. The Luftwaffe crosses were replaced with the Slovak national markings. The swastikas on fins were overpainted and the Slovak markings were applied there. There appeared the yellow band on the fuselage of both planes. However the bands weren't appled at the same location on both aircraft. The S-81 had it painted closer to the fin.

And the next pic I believe shows the S-82.... the dark band can be seen.

 

[Ohm-men]

Super!!! Thanks a lot for this info. This is great...!!!

Now I know what I'm in to.

In supose that the "new livery" consisted of the replacement of the national markings by overpainting the Luftwaffe codes.
So the "original" camo scheme wasn't changed. Or am I not getting this right?
The pic is also really good as it shows the back of S-82 and gives a good idea of the "simplified"? splinter pattern.
I looks that the overpaint with RLM went arround the spine as well, so this could explain the absence of the "spikes" of the slinter camo on the back.

Oh, I will have a field day when painting this camo on the model... I'm really looking forward to that. I hope to represent the model in a later stage, when the paint was more worn. And perhaps the "clouded" shapes are just variations in the film used...

 

[Wurger]

In supose that the "new livery" consisted of the replacement of the national markings by overpainting the Luftwaffe codes.
So the "original" camo scheme wasn't changed. Or am I not getting this right?
The pic is also really good as it shows the back of S-82 and gives a good idea of the "simplified"? splinter pattern.
I looks that the overpaint with RLM went arround the spine as well, so this could explain the absence of the "spikes" of the slinter camo on the back.

Yes you got it right. I have thought exactly the same. No changings to the camo scheme and colours. Unfortunately , the Slovak text doesn't mention whether the camo was repainted with other colous and it doesn't say it was the RLM74/75/76 or the earlier RLM70/71/65 scheme as well. Undoubtedly it was very worn "livery" and this may have been the reason for wrong ID of colours. Also the RLM70 band on the fuselage could overpaint the camo "spikes" there. However if you look at these diagrams above ( with the layouts of the camo spots ) you may notice that the "spikes" were part of the camo spot applied with the RLM70 Schwartzgrun usually. But the plane has a light spot there contrary to the one covering the front part of the fuselage and the one at the repainted area. The spot there looks more like the faded RLM71 Dunkelgrun than the RLM70. But it is possible the camo layout for the H version could have been a little bit different from the standard one.

 

[Ohm-men]

Thanks again! This is really very helpfull. I don't think I've ever seen any of the last pics of S-82 you posted. Thanks for all the research as well. I'm gonna try and make a accurate as possible model of S-82.
I think the S-82 is now ammong the better researched airframes!

From all these pics it looks that S-82 was mostly used in the trainer role, since there is trace of any Mg 17/131 or MG FF. No defensive or ofensive weaponery. So most likely all the gun ports were blanked off.

Normally H-10's carried the small round windows on the bomb bay compartment instead of the retangular as carried by S-82. Even though both airframes are discribed as being H-10's, it could be they were in Fact H-8's. This earlier variant was used by the Luftwaff as Transport and VIP carrier and had the retangular windows. (And most likely the earlier lower powered engines) So it could have been that the Germans decided to deliver (older) transports instead of well needed bombers for their own Kampfgeswaderen. But, ofcourse everything is possible. They only way to know for sure is to trace the Werke Nr's to the actual types.

Next week I have some time on my hands, so I'll most likely can proceed with some paintwork!
Stay tuned...

 

[Wurger]

 

[Ohm-men]

I finally managed to get some work done on the He 111.
Took me quiet a while, so it's a big update on this project.

First I looked at the He's nose. The problem with the Monegram kit is that it's a H-3. So the H-22 has the wrong nose.
The Bola was changed on the H-6 and H-10 to carry heavier nose guns. The H-10 normally carried the MG FF cannon and therefor had a strenghted nose. This nose is shorter and more rounded. So I took the hacksaw, cut off the kit's glass nose and tried to file and sand it to the propper shape. It's not 100% but close enough...

The belly of the beast was also different from the H-3. The Paratrooper version had no small windows. So these were filled up with plastic card and sanded flush. For this I used the wrong "C" stand glass (of the kit) which will be replaced later with a Squadron correct item for the H-10. The front of the gondala on the H-10 was also clear, so this item will be replaced with a correct one as well.

After carefully polishing the kit's plastic. (something that needs to be done when you rebuild a kit) I started painting.
I read on a few techniques and wanted to try something new (at least for me). Instead of pre-shading (my usual modus operandi) I choose to paint the entire model "cockpit black" (a dark grey-ish black) and work from there. I've seen some great results from this technique and I think it's mostly used by armour modellers.
I started with the underside, RLM 65.

After confirming this technique worked the way I wanted, I moved to the uppersides and applied some RLM 71 green.
I wanted the effect of a worn paint job as all the pics showing "S-82" have a well worn paint apearance.
By painting spots of RLM 71 over the cockpit black paint I got a quit interesting result. Pretty much what I hoped for...

Next Imade some "floating masks"for the RLM 70 Dark Green "Spliter Camo". I used masks instead of tape to get a less hard demarcation line between the greens. I noticed that mid- to late war He 111's have less hard lines.
I used the same technique as for the RLM 71. Splotchy lines, like a very dense "wellermuster" camo.

When all this had time to dry overnight, I started thinking on how to go for the Slovak fusalage markings. with Wojtek's/Wurger's help I was able to determine that the Slovak's painted over the Luftwaffe markings. S-82 was delivered as CO + PT.
I decided to take the same route, paint the Luftwaffe codes first. I made some masks and painted these on the fuselge. As you can notice they look rather crude, but since they will be overpainted, I only needed the countours.

So with the bulk of the work done, I can now start thinking of finishing this kit. Since I already subscribed for GB#26, I want this one done before I start with the Hobby Boss Me 262 B-1 trainer.
Stay tuned!

 

[Wurger]

 

[Ohm-men]

I added the RLM 70 overpaint for the Luftwaffe fuselage codes and added the Yellow wing tips and fuselage band.
When going thru my paint jars, I noticed I had two different brands of RLM 70 and 71. I painted the entire model with Model Master RLM 71/71 but also found some bottels of Aero Master RLM 70/71. (these must be at least 15 years old, and never used before) but the tint of the Aero Master RLM 70 was perfect for the overpaint of the codes as it's more dark then it's Model Master counterpart.

Next will be some outlines on the lower wings of Luftwaffe crosses and codes in RLM 65, before I can spray some Future over the model prior to decaling.

I'll probably try to get a hod of a set of Quickboost exhausts for the He-111 or try to find some from Monogram's/Revell H-6 offering to replace the stacks supplied with the kit (which are for the H-1 variant)

Pics to follow!