Some Sturmbock questions

[donnerherz]

Hello Erich,

how are you?

At the moment I`ve need answers to the following bunch of questions:

1. When did the props colours of the Sturmstaffel aircraft change from plain black to black/white spiral - and did this happen together with the change of the upper wings Balkenkreuze (from black/white to only white outlined)?

2. The Me109 fighter escort of the Sturmstaffel were all of I./JG3 you wrote.
Is this true from the first Sturmstaffel days until to the last?

3. So these Me109s did not have the white fuselage band with ~, cause this was distinctive for the IV. Gruppe only, right?

4. Did the Me109s from IV./JG3 fly top cover for the Sturmstaffel, too - and if yes when did they replace their G6 through 190A8 Sturms (becoming a sturmgruppe, and Sturmstaffel 1 was disbanded)?

A lot of complicated questions, I know, but I´m sure you know the answers, Erich.

Thanks a lot and greetings from germany,
Don

 

[Erich]

Roman I have no clue, he was pretty much alone most of his after war life....

# 1 probably by March of 44

# 2 JG 1 offered Bf 109G's for protection, I./JG 3 only offered and it was not always Sturmstaffel 1 from April till Normandie invasion of 44

# 3 Bf 109G-6/AS of I./JG 3 had no white band at all and no distinctive markings except to be painted in overall RLM 76 blue-grey.

# 4 the 109's were transferred out very slowly in may of 44 and acceptance of the Fw 190A-8 and A-8/R2's. the 109's did not form high group protection but had underwing 2cm waffen-pods for bomber killing. On May 8th of 44 the old pilots of Sturmstaffel 1 was the basis of the SturmFw section of IV./JG 3 becoming the new 11th staffel.

 

[donnerherz]

Hello Erich,

need to know more details about 109G6/AS of I./JG3.

1. Did these a/c had all the solid black markings (all Balkenkreuze and swastika without any white colour) like "Black 14" (Horst Petzschler) did?

2. Did all of these a/c had yellow painted underengines and yellow wing tipps (under wing only or under and upper?)?

Needless to say "thanx a lot" and greetings from germany, Don

 

[Erich]

at first there was no Spiralschnauze in white and then later applied. All blue grey ~ Hellgrau 109G-6/AS had black markings in 2nd staffel like Horst P's. No yellow wing tips though some say they did. It does appear that Schwarze 14 had a yellow under engine cowling but the other 2nd staffel G-6/AS appear not to have it applied. This would of helped though of course for other gruppen a/c to ID the 109's properly. So this is still in question. 1st staffel had white numbers outlined in Black. as for 3rd staffel I do not know.

Once the Normadnie invasion started the I. gruppe machines were painted back into the light and dark grey mottling with a dark fuselage spine and then the wide white Reichsverteidigung band was applied behind the Balkenkreuz. The white Spiralschnauze was standard over the black prop.

Greetings to you and yours 8)

E ~

 

[donnerherz]

Okay Erich,

after all I do know now it seems that the "high altitude fighters" 109G6AS of JG3 did fly high cover for the Sturmstaffel 1 only for a very short time period (three weeks or so?).

Horst Petzschler as the "instigator" of this unit was transferred to I./JG3 at April 13th 1944. And the Sturmstaffel 1 did become 11./JG3 on May 8th 1944.

1. So a historical correct scenario of Sturmstaffel 1 protected by 109G6/AS "high altitude fighters" of I./JG3 flying a mission versus USAAF is not possible, right?

2. How did the 109s of JG1 look in April/May 1944? Did they fly protective missions for Sturmstaffel 1 in this time period, too?

Thank you very much, Don

 

[Erich]

yes I./JG 3 flew high escort mission for Sturmstaffel 1 in April of 44 against US heavy bombers, the 109's took on P-51B's and then also heavy bombers.

I cannot say for fact what the JG 1 109's looked like at the time but probably very light greys-blue as well, later in 1944 they had this camo pattern.

E ~

 

[donnerherz]

Thank you Erich!

That´s great (the possible historical correct scenario mentioned above)!

What is still confusing me are the balkenkreuze/swastika of 2./JG3 - did they have a white trim (like a "normal" Balkenkreuz/swastika) or nothing of white colour or only a very thin white border?

Greetings from germany, Don

 

[Erich]

Don sorry I did not answer about the national markings :

yes they had white for the Balkenkreuz and also for the swastika, even in the black and white photos you can barely see the white around the cross and the aircraft are so distant in the photos it is hard to see around the swastika.

Erich ~

 

[donnerherz]

Thank you Erich,

sorry but I have to know it for 100%:

Do you mean the fuselage Balkenkreuz only or all Balkenkreuze (on upper/lower wings, too)?

Thanks a lot for your patient help, Don

 

[Erich]

yes to all of them Don white around the black crosses