- Thread starter
-
- #21
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Allright Soren though I respect your views on this, this is nothing more than a bunch of "What Ifs" and for the reason of getting back on topic here which is P-40 vs. Hurricane take this to the "What if" Threads.
Soren said:and would you say the Japaneese would've surrendered if a conventional landing on their mainland was made??
Eventually, yes they would. And they showed us that eventually, if enough casualties were inflicted, even they would surrender. (Just like any other nation)
thelancasterkicksass said:no, the peasants were sharpening their bamboo spears waiting for the americans on the beaches, we'd be much the same i can assure you of that...........
Until your casualties rise to a certain point you would, yes, but after that you'd accept the inevitable.
Soren said:Without an airforce, in a week, the RN would've been annihilated.
Soren said:Adler and Gnomey, we're talking if the RAF was no'more.
But yes, as I've said before, its not worth even discussin it as the RAF was never beaten, and at the time it was close to, the LW was closer.
Soren said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Soren I know that you are talking about if the RAF had been defeated however look at this way. What landing craft did the Germans have. Nothing very good. The RN would not have even needed Battleships or Cruiser to take out the German landing fleet. It would have taken quite some time to build a suitable landing craft fleet.
With complete air supremacy, amphibious landings are far from the only option Adler
Para invading forces proved successful at Crete and France, why not Britain ?
And without an airforce, how do you effectively stop an invading army from the air ?
Lunatic said:I respectfully disagree. The Japanese people were willing to sustain tremendous losses in defense of the Emperor. The Japanese military commanders still believed that if they could inflict sufficiently high losses on the Allies the Allies would accept a negotiated surender and they were willing to endure many times that level of losses to achieve this.
Had the USA forgone the use of non-conventilonal weapons (the A-Bomb and nerve gas) Allied losses would have run to the mid 6 figure mark, perhaps even as high as a million. And Japanese losses would have been 10 fold as high. And the Soviets would have ended up in complete control of China and at least two and probably three of the Northern Japanese Islands (they hold one today), if not the entire contry. And the Soviet's would have had no respect for Japanese culteral identity or tradition.
Having the A-Bomb dropped on Japan was the best thing that could have happened to them short of a miracle of enlightenment in the Japanese milititary leadership. It saved millions of Japanese lives and allowed them to retain the largest part of their cultural identity. Had they endured a an invasion, even without the Soviets being involved, their culture would have been almost completely lost.
How? They'd have hung back until the critical moment when Hitler made his move and wiped out his invasion force.
Hitler didn't have the resources to build a Luftwaffe' large enought to stop that (especially at night).
Sea-Lion was a fantasy cooked up in a cocain/amphetamine/morphine daze. The German's had no capacity for such an operation and had they tried it the war would have ended much earlier.
Read this essay: http://www.flin.demon.co.uk/althist/seal1.htm
Convinced?
=S=
Lunatic
Lunatic said:Soren said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Soren I know that you are talking about if the RAF had been defeated however look at this way. What landing craft did the Germans have. Nothing very good. The RN would not have even needed Battleships or Cruiser to take out the German landing fleet. It would have taken quite some time to build a suitable landing craft fleet.
With complete air supremacy, amphibious landings are far from the only option Adler
Para invading forces proved successful at Crete and France, why not Britain ?
And without an airforce, how do you effectively stop an invading army from the air ?
Oh come on be serious Soren. A para attack without a naval invasion would result in lots of German POW's. Paras are not an objective capturing force, they are a disruptive force. Without a naval invasion the paras would have run out of supplies in less than a day and been doomed. The first night that fell the British tanks and armored cars would have cut them to ribbons.
Unless you are suggesting that Hitler had some means of dropping 20 or 30 thousand well supplied troops into England this is an absurd proposition.
=S=
Lunatic
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:And how would the RN been sunk without a chance. Sorry Soren but the RN is more powerful than you think it is. How the hell do you think it survived anyhow? By sitting in the harbor hiding.
I have to disagree Soren while the LW could have interferred and harrased it could never have stopped the RN getting away.Soren said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:And how would the RN been sunk without a chance. Sorry Soren but the RN is more powerful than you think it is. How the hell do you think it survived anyhow? By sitting in the harbor hiding.
Here's how it is..
Without any RAF, the RN wasnt mighty, it was just big. And any attempted to escape by the RN, would be abruptly halted by axis aircraft.
Gnomey said:The RN was the most powerful fleet afloat in 1940 and it would have been impossible for the LW to destroy every single ship the RN possessed at the time and significant damage would have been done to the invasion fleet.