Sunderland vs. eight Ju 88's

[Njaco]

June 14, 1942 - In the evening Italian Fiat CR 42s were out to attack the cruiser HMS "Liverpool" from the Operation "Vigoruous" convoy sailing to Malta. The cruiser ws escorted by a Gibraltar-based Catalina from RAF No. 240 Sqdn, which had been diverted from its anti-submarine duties and ordered to escort the damaged cruiser. At 17.05 hrs, the Catalina was attacked by 4 CR 42s but F/O Riddy skillfully maneuvered his lumbering flyingboat, enabling his gunners to repel repeated attacks. Nonetheless, Sergente Renato Casalini carried out a number of determined attacks, gaining strikes on the flyingboat's hull and slightly wounding the W/T operator.

 

[Heinz]

The above stories about the Lancaster, Wellington and Avro Ansons have made me rather stunned.

Its funny the kills by gunners on RAF bomber isn't as apparent as the USAAF bombers.

 

[Njaco]

I know the thread is old but this was something just found.

July 30, 1943 - While patrolling to the north of Corsica, a B-26 Marauder of No. 14 Sqdn RAF based in Egypt and piloted by Group Captain Dick Maydwell encountered a German Me 323, six-engined transport aircraft flying unescorted low over the sea. He maneuvered his B-26 to allow his gunners to open fire and three engines were set on fire. The massive aircraft, described by Maydwell's navigator as looking like "a block of flats", crash landed on the shore. The crew escaped unhurt and Maydwell held his fire.

 

[Glider]

One example that I always found interesting was over the Bay of Biscay on the 15th August 1943. A Halifax V towing a Horsa glider was intercepted by 12 Ju88C. Four climbed to give fighter protection in case of Beaufighters interupted (they were known to be around) and 8 attacked. The Horsa released the cable and ditched and the Halifax evaded for around 15 mins until it reached cloud. In that time it suffered a fair amount of damage to its right wing but damaged two of the Ju88's who had to leave the battle after being hit in the engine.
It should be remembered that the Halifax V only had one turret in the rear.

 

[Njaco]

I find these large plane battles amazing. Having an airplane do something it was not designed to do, i.e. dogfight, must've been something to see.

 

[Heinz]

It is quite awe inspiring when you try and think about it.....

 

[comiso90]

I find these large plane battles amazing. Having an airplane do something it was not designed to do, i.e. dogfight, must've been something to see.

Me too. I'd like to see "Dogfights" re-create some..

 

[Njaco]

Perfect show to try that!! Just watched "Kamikazi".

 

[comiso90]

I know the thread is old but this was something just found.

July 30, 1943 - While patrolling to the north of Corsica, a B-26 Marauder of No. 14 Sqdn RAF based in Egypt and piloted by Group Captain Dick Maydwell encountered a German Me 323, six-engined transport aircraft flying unescorted low over the sea. He maneuvered his B-26 to allow his gunners to open fire and three engines were set on fire. .

The 323 had a few guns of it's own too. I wonder if they scored any hits:

Armament:
Five MG 15 mounted in nose mounts
Six Mg 34 infantry MG's in beam windows


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mZbTdaLHE

.

 

[Aggie08]

I remember one story, a B-17 who got real cozy with a big Japanese flying boat- can't remember which one. The two shot the hell out of each other, but I think the Fort won. I'm sure someone can elaborate.

 

[comiso90]

I remember one story, a B-17 who got real cozy with a big Japanese flying boat- can't remember which one. The two shot the hell out of each other, but I think the Fort won. I'm sure someone can elaborate.

I'd like to hear more!

I like this thread!

The crew of the large lumbering aircraft are often relegated to a passive role of defense and survival. It's very interesting to hear about unconventional exploits.

.

 

[Glider]

I am pretty sure that in the Med some Baltimores (IMHO one of the underated bombers of the war) were used as long range fighters to intercept German transports due to their 4 x HMG front guns.

 

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Further to Njaco's post, weren't USAAF B-26 Marauders dispatched to engage Me 323 Gigants over the Med in that Theatre of Operations, much to the discomfiture of the 323s? Don't have dates/units to hand.

I am aware of (apocryphal?) tales of RAF Coastal Command Liberators dogfighting with FW200 Condors over the Atlantic. Now, that would have been a sight to behold!

 

[Glider]

Further to Njaco's post, weren't USAAF B-26 Marauders dispatched to engage Me 323 Gigants over the Med in that Theatre of Operations, much to the discomfiture of the 323s? Don't have dates/units to hand.

I am aware of (apocryphal?) tales of RAF Coastal Command Liberators dogfighting with FW200 Condors over the Atlantic. Now, that would have been a sight to behold!

It certanly happened. on 17th Aug 1943, a US Liberator was lost in combat with a FW200 which was also destroyed in the action

 

[comiso90]

It certanly happened. on 17th Aug 1943, a US Liberator was lost in combat with a FW200 which was also destroyed in the action

fascinating!

 

[comiso90]

Further to Njaco's post, weren't USAAF B-26 Marauders dispatched to engage Me 323 Gigants over the Med in that Theatre of Operations, much to the discomfiture of the 323s?

At night?

.

 

[Glider]

Also I found an example of a Sunderland that had a battle with a FW200. The FW badly damaged the Sunderlands hydraulics with his first burst but the Sunderland made it home.

 

[Aggie08]

I'd like to hear more!

I like this thread!

The crew of the large lumbering aircraft are often relegated to a passive role of defense and survival. It's very interesting to hear about unconventional exploits.

.

Lt. Tsuneo Hitsuji - Shootout Between H6K5 Mavis and B-17

This seems to be the story I remember. It is very neat in that it is told from the Japanese perspective. It's a pretty brutal fight to say the least.

 

[comiso90]

Thanks Aggie- great story. it was funny hearing the B-17 referred to as "FAST"

In a situation like that, what were the gunners trained to shoot at? I would think the priorities would be:

1.The enemy cockpit
2.other gunners
3.engines
4.ANYTHING

 

[Aggie08]

It's amazing how hard air-to-air gunnery is, when two huge planes actually miss on a few passes. I can only guess at how hard hard it is to hit a fighter. I guess aim at the cockpit? I'm not really sure, but it seems like a "softer" and more crucial part of the plane than one of the engines.