Supermarine Walrus

[otftch]

Here's a Walrus in U.S. markings, although not used by the U.S. Seems the Brits figured the french would fire on them durring the landings in North africa, after they beat up the french fleet at Mers EL Kabir. The solution was to paint up as a U.S. aircraft hoping the french would not fire on them. Not sure if it worked but makes for an unusual subject.
Ed

 

[Wurger]

Looking very nice Ed.

 

[Gnomey]

Nice work as usual Ed!

 

[T Bolt]

Great work Ed!

 

[Airframes]

Nice one Ed !

 

[hawkeye2an]

As usual.......UNUSUAL. Love IT !! I wish I had the time to be as productive as you.

Andy

On the Workbench (ALL 1/48th):
Howard UC-70 (DGA-15) – Scratchbuild
Czech Models XP-77
Pegaso Ercoupe with JATO
Grumman P-65D 'what-if' starting with AMT F7F changing to 2 Merlins, bubble canopy and making it a taildragger.

 

[A4K]

Nice Ed!

I read once how all aircraft (British and American) used in Operation Torch were to be marked with the US star surmounted by the British yellow outer circle. Is the reason you gave above the logic behind it? (And did the USAAF paint the US flag on their aircraft to differentiate them?)

 

[otftch]

Nice Ed!

I read once how all aircraft (British and American) used in Operation Torch were to be marked with the US star surmounted by the British yellow outer circle. Is the reason you gave above the logic behind it? (And did the USAAF paint the US flag on their aircraft to differentiate them?)

I don't know about all aircraft in "Operation Torch" but the USN Wilcats had the outer yellow band. I've not yet seen an Avenger with it or any other Britsh aircraft with a US star and yellow circle stating only use in "Torch".( I've sen some photos of Spits with the Star and yellow circle but they were operated by US Pilots of VCS-7) I do know the French were pretty piised with the attacking of thier fleet. With Hitler's track record of keeping promises I think he would have taken the French fleet if he could have, but I've met Frenchmen to this day who get quite agitated if the incident is mentioned.
Ed

 

[A4K]

Yep, I've only seen pics of USAAF Spits and Wildcats, plus a captured Fi-156 storch, in those marking myself. With the Storch being so painted, it may well have been a tactical 'marking' of the theatre, though prior to your Walrus build, I hadn't seen a british a/c with them either...

As for the French reaction, I'm not surprised - I've been to places here in Europe where if you want to make a room full of enemies in two seconds flat, start speaking German...

 

[hawkeye2an]

I don't know about all aircraft in "Operation Torch" but the USN Wilcats had the outer yellow band. I've not yet seen an Avenger with it or any other Britsh aircraft with a US star and yellow circle stating only use in "Torch".( I've sen some photos of Spits with the Star and yellow circle but they were operated by US Pilots of VCS-7) I do know the French were pretty piised with the attacking of thier fleet. With Hitler's track record of keeping promises I think he would have taken the French fleet if he could have, but I've met Frenchmen to this day who get quite agitated if the incident is mentioned.
Ed

The spec called for ALL U.S. planes in operation Torch to have a 2" yellow band around the 'star and circle' most Wildcats had much more than 2" as with any spec, 'field interpretation' can vary greatly. I also have seen references to the 2" yellow surround being used on B-17s in the UK in 1942.

 

[A4K]

Interesting, hawkeye...

 

[vikingBerserker]

Well done Ed, she looks spiffy with the US markings.

 

[otftch]

The spec called for ALL U.S. planes in operation Torch to have a 2" yellow band around the 'star and circle' most Wildcats had much more than 2" as with any spec, 'field interpretation' can vary greatly. I also have seen references to the 2" yellow surround being used on B-17s in the UK in 1942.

I just found two photos of US Navy planes with the yellow band around the Star. An SBD and SOC seagull. They are in a pdf and I don't know how to get them as a photos only. If you Search Naval Aviation News and then go to Nov 1976. you will find them.
Ed

 

[otftch]

Nice Ed!

I read once how all aircraft (British and American) used in Operation Torch were to be marked with the US star surmounted by the British yellow outer circle. Is the reason you gave above the logic behind it? (And did the USAAF paint the US flag on their aircraft to differentiate them?)

Got these today. Not the greatest but not bad for scans.
Ed

 

[Airframes]

The yellow surround to the 'Type 2' star and circle was introduced on October 1st 1942, in order to make the insignia more visible. It was officially supposed to be 2 inches wide but, as already mentioned, this was quite often wider. However, from July 1942, the yellow surround was already in use on US-operated aircraft taken over from the RAF, where the roundel was overpainted, adding the white star and leaving the yellow surround in place.
In 1943, with the likelyhood of US aircraft overflying countries not directly involved in the war, an additional recognition aid, in the form of the US flag, was recommended, this following the order of January 19th. These markings were added to the vertical tail surfaces of aircraft in the early stages of 'Torch'.
An additional marking for the MTO, from December 1942, the RAF red/white/blue 'fin flash' was painted on vertical tail surfaces as a theater identification marking.
The 'bars' to the 'star' were added following tests in mid-1943, implemented on June 28th,to be fully effective by September1st, in order to present the national insignia as a rectangle at a distance, as the circle was indistinct, and could be mistaken, with the star in the centre, as a cross, or the Japanese 'meatball'.
Soon after, orders were issued to add a red border to the 'stars and bars'to complete the colours of the 'flag' but, following complaints from the PTO, where the red, at a distance, could possibly be confused with Japanese markings, a counter-order of August14th called for this red border to be overpainted in blue.

 

[36feet10inches]

Looks great! I have a couple of Operation Torch builds lined up, one a Seafire and one a Sea Hurricane... one of my "grail" kits is a Fairey Albacore that comes with Torch markings, I don't see them come up very often. There's a cheerful emnity between ourselves and the French that goes back to 1066 and beyond... I don't think they would need too many excuses to chuck a bit of ack-ack at a kite carrying British roundels (bonsoir à nos amis français...)

 

[A4K]

Great info Terry, thanks! Reading it like that, I think it may have been from a microscale sheet history that I got my info.
One thing about the US flag marking- I have a photo of a USAAF Spit with this painted aft of the cockpit, forward of the Roundel.

 

[otftch]

Great info Terry, thanks! Reading it like that, I think it may have been from a microscale sheet history that I got my info.
One thing about the US flag marking- I have a photo of a USAAF Spit with this painted aft of the cockpit, forward of the Roundel.

Could you post a photo of that aircraft ?
Ed

 

[hawkeye2an]

Here's a little sheet I put together from various sources. I always get frustrated when I read a book about aircraft and they show only one or two grainy photos, so I do up one of these.

 

[A4K]

Could you post a photo of that aircraft ?
Ed

Sure thing! From Squadron/ Signal No.39: Spitfire in Action