Thach's cat (3 Viewers)

[Skywalker Jin]

No, just six Japanese planes; there's only six flags.

I see. The arrangement above makes me think of extra kills(Start a new column after every four kills like Kepford?)

But I also see start after 5 kills(like David McCampbell)

And also,
Nothing is more reassuring than discussing relevant history with the son of an ace pilot.

 

[SaparotRob]

Beautiful Corsair.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

And no drop tanks, they did not come along until mid 1943. My father's log book notes some entries regard testing tanks for the VF-11 haul from Espiritu Santo to Guadalcanal . . . evidently there was some problem with tanks falling off.

I need some documents to illustrate it in my booklet attached to this cat's model, could you provide some? Thank you.

 

[R Leonard]

what sort of copies of documents?

 

[Skywalker Jin]

what sort of copies of documents?

To prove the drop tanks still had problem falling off and the problem was not solved until mid 1943

 

[R Leonard]

I would not take anecdotal events in one squadron as indicative of the entire service's experience with drop tanks. The VF-11's adventures (or mis-adventures) with drop tanks in the earlier post occurred when they did simply because the squadron did not have any tanks in inventory before the time of occurrence and needed to test the efficacy.

Drop tanks of any kind were not available for the F4F-3. For the F4F-4, the original drop tank was a 42 gallon center-line bathtub (for lack of a better description) shaped tank. These were available as early as May 1942 and required conversion kits to install the necessary plumbing. They were not terribly popular, difficult to mount and prone to not being release-able. As I understand it, VF-3 was supposed to begin testing these, but the uproar of going to Midway left that plan in a cloud of dust. I believe VF-10 may have used the bath-tub type while operating off Enterprise in October 1942, but I can find no mention in the various VF-10 documents I have.

It wasn't long before the tear-shaped 58 gallon underwing drop tanks and the necessary conversion kits were available and were starting to be installed on state-side F4F-4s. A month later, by November 1942, the 58-gallon teardrop shaped type was being used on F4Fs in the Atlantic Theatre. At about the same time production models were coming out of Bethpage with the hardware already installed. In general, however, drop tanks on F4Fs were, with a very few exceptions, mostly for ferry usage. Way back in March 1941, the CNO, due to the distance factors in the Pacific, was pressing BuAer's Fighter Design Division hard to increase fuel capacity especially for land based single seat fighters, read, VMF squadrons. There was not much more space for additional fuel to squeeze out of a F4F (unless you're building a -7) so drop tanks seemed to be the way to go. It became a matter of configuration.

Frankly, from my perspective, drop tanks included in F4F model airplane kits are there because kit manufacturers tend to pay little attention to reality and go for the gee-whiz. Drop tanks were more likely in use on FM-2s than F4Fs as the F4Fs were rapidly ending production. At the time VF-11 was playing with the things, April 1943, Eastern was already starting FM-1 production and would swing into the FM-2 in September. And Grumman was out of the F4F business, moving on to the F6F. Marine squadrons at Guadalcanal during the time of the VF-11 tour were flying F4Us. VF-21 was there, also with F4Fs and the two, VF-11 and VF-21 were probably the last USN F4F squadrons in action. VF-11 left Guadalcanal in mid July 1943, flying, one presumes with drop tanks due to distance, to Espiritu Santo. There they left their mounts behind. While waiting for transport back to the west coast a few pilots had the opportunity to check out in VF-33's F6Fs and they all came away with Mr. Toad eyes.

99% of the photos I've seen showing Wildcats with drop tanks have been FM-2s not F4F-4s. And the F4Fs I've seen with drop tanks aboard carriers were in the Atlantic Theater. Some models kits or their upgrades show F4Fs from VF-4 on Ranger off North Africa in November 1942 with the center-line drop tank. But the photo evidence clearly shows the underwing configuration.

And the use of these 58 gallon drop tanks by carrier aircraft proliferated . . .

From BuAer Confidential Bulletin 2-43, 1 Sep 1943 (page 31)

"SBD DROP TANK INSTALLATION
"US Pacific Fleet, South Pacific Force Report Auxiliary SBD-2, SBD-3, SBD-4, June 16, 1943.

"From Guadalcanal have come details of a simple installation devised locally to permit the carrying of F4F-4 wing tanks in the port bomb rack of SBD-2, -3, -4 airplanes. Either the Columbia Rope Company NXS 9739 or the Fisk Rubber Company NXSA 15304 wing tank can be used, and a minimum of materials required: a few feet of tubing and sway braces. The tanks were used in two operations in early June, permitting the bombing of targets hitherto inaccessible to SBDs. In spite of the lightness of the tank only one plane had difficulty in releasing. On the average the tanks provided fuel for 1¼ hours' flight.

"BUREAU COMMENT:
"This installation appears to be OK. Douglas is incorporating in the earliest possible SBD a 58-gallon drop talk installation for each wing (differing somewhat from the one developed at Guadalcanal). Action is being taken to make the F4F, FM, TBF, TBM, SBD, and SB2C drop tanks interchangeable."

From the same (page 52)

AIRCRAFT DESIGN PROJECTS
. . .
VTB
. . .
"The wing drop tank installation (2-58 gal. tanks) on TBF-1 has been tested and found satisfactory. The contractor is proceeding with this change with the intention of incorporating it in all succeeding deliveries. Service installation kits will be forwarded to Aircraft, South Pacific, at high priority, and parts will be furnished later for service installation in the remainder of the airplanes delivered without this installation."

 

[Skywalker Jin]

I would not take anecdotal events in one squadron as indicative of the entire service's experience with drop tanks. The VF-11's adventures (or mis-adventures) with drop tanks in the earlier post occurred when they did simply because the squadron did not have any tanks in inventory before the time of occurrence and needed to test the efficacy.

Drop tanks of any kind were not available for the F4F-3. For the F4F-4, the original drop tank was a 42 gallon center-line bathtub (for lack of a better description) shaped tank. These were available as early as May 1942 and required conversion kits to install the necessary plumbing. They were not terribly popular, difficult to mount and prone to not being release-able. As I understand it, VF-3 was supposed to begin testing these, but the uproar of going to Midway left that plan in a cloud of dust. I believe VF-10 may have used the bath-tub type while operating off Enterprise in October 1942, but I can find no mention in the various VF-10 documents I have. A

It wasn't long before the tear-shaped 58 gallon underwing drop tanks and the necessary conversion kits were available and were starting to be installed on state-side F4F-4s. A month later, by November 1942, the 58-gallon teardrop shaped type was being used on F4Fs in the Atlantic Theatre. At about the same time production models were coming out of Bethpage with the hardware already installed. In general, however, drop tanks on F4Fs were, with a very few exceptions, mostly for ferry usage. Way back in March 1941, the CNO, due to the distance factors in the Pacific, was pressing BuAer's Fighter Design Division hard to increase fuel capacity especially for land based single seat fighters, read, VMF squadrons. There was not much more space for additional fuel to squeeze out of a F4F (unless you're building a -7) so drop tanks seemed to be the way to go. It became a matter of configuration.

Frankly, from my perspective, drop tanks included in F4F model airplane kits are there because kit manufacturers tend to pay little attention to reality and go for the gee-whiz. Drop tanks were more likely in use on FM-2s than F4Fs as the F4Fs were rapidly ending production. At the time VF-11 was playing with the things, April 1943, Eastern was already starting FM-1 production and would swing into the FM-2 in September. And Grumman was out of the F4F business, moving on to the F6F. Marine squadrons at Guadalcanal during the time of the VF-11 tour were flying F4Us. VF-21 was there, also with F4Fs and the two, VF-11 and VF-21 were probably the last USN F4F squadrons in action. VF-11 left Guadalcanal in mid July 1943, flying, one presumes with drop tanks due to distance, to Espiritu Santo. There they left their mounts behind. While waiting for transport back to the west coast a few pilots had the opportunity to check out in VF-33's F6Fs and they all came away with Mr. Toad eyes.

99% of the photos I've seen showing Wildcats with drop tanks have been FM-2s not F4F-4s. And the F4Fs I've seen with drop tanks aboard carriers were in the Atlantic Theater. Some models kits or their upgrades show F4Fs from VF-4 on Ranger off North Africa in November 1942 with the center-line drop tank. But the photo evidence clearly shows the underwing configuration.

And the use of these 58 gallon drop tanks by carrier aircraft proliferated . . .

From BuAer Confidential Bulletin 2-43, 1 Sep 1943 (page 31)

"SBD DROP TANK INSTALLATION
"US Pacific Fleet, South Pacific Force Report Auxiliary SBD-2, SBD-3, SBD-4, June 16, 1943.

"From Guadalcanal have come details of a simple installation devised locally to permit the carrying of F4F-4 wing tanks in the port bomb rack of SBD-2, -3, -4 airplanes. Either the Columbia Rope Company NXS 9739 or the Fisk Rubber Company NXSA 15304 wing tank can be used, and a minimum of materials required: a few feet of tubing and sway braces. The tanks were used in two operations in early June, permitting the bombing of targets hitherto inaccessible to SBDs. In spite of the lightness of the tank only one plane had difficulty in releasing. On the average the tanks provided fuel for 1¼ hours' flight.

"BUREAU COMMENT:
"This installation appears to be OK. Douglas is incorporating in the earliest possible SBD a 58-gallon drop talk installation for each wing (differing somewhat from the one developed at Guadalcanal). Action is being taken to make the F4F, FM, TBF, TBM, SBD, and SB2C drop tanks interchangeable."

From the same (page 52)

AIRCRAFT DESIGN PROJECTS
. . .
VTB
. . .
"The wing drop tank installation (2-58 gal. tanks) on TBF-1 has been tested and found satisfactory. The contractor is proceeding with this change with the intention of incorporating it in all succeeding deliveries. Service installation kits will be forwarded to Aircraft, South Pacific, at high priority, and parts will be furnished later for service installation in the remainder of the airplanes delivered without this installation."

Thank you for providing the last part of puzzle, now my booklet is complete

 

[SaparotRob]

This place is amazing.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

I would not take anecdotal events in one squadron as indicative of the entire service's experience with drop tanks. The VF-11's adventures (or mis-adventures) with drop tanks in the earlier post occurred when they did simply because the squadron did not have any tanks in inventory before the time of occurrence and needed to test the efficacy.

Drop tanks of any kind were not available for the F4F-3. For the F4F-4, the original drop tank was a 42 gallon center-line bathtub (for lack of a better description) shaped tank. These were available as early as May 1942 and required conversion kits to install the necessary plumbing. They were not terribly popular, difficult to mount and prone to not being release-able. As I understand it, VF-3 was supposed to begin testing these, but the uproar of going to Midway left that plan in a cloud of dust. I believe VF-10 may have used the bath-tub type while operating off Enterprise in October 1942, but I can find no mention in the various VF-10 documents I have.

It wasn't long before the tear-shaped 58 gallon underwing drop tanks and the necessary conversion kits were available and were starting to be installed on state-side F4F-4s. A month later, by November 1942, the 58-gallon teardrop shaped type was being used on F4Fs in the Atlantic Theatre. At about the same time production models were coming out of Bethpage with the hardware already installed. In general, however, drop tanks on F4Fs were, with a very few exceptions, mostly for ferry usage. Way back in March 1941, the CNO, due to the distance factors in the Pacific, was pressing BuAer's Fighter Design Division hard to increase fuel capacity especially for land based single seat fighters, read, VMF squadrons. There was not much more space for additional fuel to squeeze out of a F4F (unless you're building a -7) so drop tanks seemed to be the way to go. It became a matter of configuration.

Frankly, from my perspective, drop tanks included in F4F model airplane kits are there because kit manufacturers tend to pay little attention to reality and go for the gee-whiz. Drop tanks were more likely in use on FM-2s than F4Fs as the F4Fs were rapidly ending production. At the time VF-11 was playing with the things, April 1943, Eastern was already starting FM-1 production and would swing into the FM-2 in September. And Grumman was out of the F4F business, moving on to the F6F. Marine squadrons at Guadalcanal during the time of the VF-11 tour were flying F4Us. VF-21 was there, also with F4Fs and the two, VF-11 and VF-21 were probably the last USN F4F squadrons in action. VF-11 left Guadalcanal in mid July 1943, flying, one presumes with drop tanks due to distance, to Espiritu Santo. There they left their mounts behind. While waiting for transport back to the west coast a few pilots had the opportunity to check out in VF-33's F6Fs and they all came away with Mr. Toad eyes.

99% of the photos I've seen showing Wildcats with drop tanks have been FM-2s not F4F-4s. And the F4Fs I've seen with drop tanks aboard carriers were in the Atlantic Theater. Some models kits or their upgrades show F4Fs from VF-4 on Ranger off North Africa in November 1942 with the center-line drop tank. But the photo evidence clearly shows the underwing configuration.

And the use of these 58 gallon drop tanks by carrier aircraft proliferated . . .

From BuAer Confidential Bulletin 2-43, 1 Sep 1943 (page 31)

"SBD DROP TANK INSTALLATION
"US Pacific Fleet, South Pacific Force Report Auxiliary SBD-2, SBD-3, SBD-4, June 16, 1943.

"From Guadalcanal have come details of a simple installation devised locally to permit the carrying of F4F-4 wing tanks in the port bomb rack of SBD-2, -3, -4 airplanes. Either the Columbia Rope Company NXS 9739 or the Fisk Rubber Company NXSA 15304 wing tank can be used, and a minimum of materials required: a few feet of tubing and sway braces. The tanks were used in two operations in early June, permitting the bombing of targets hitherto inaccessible to SBDs. In spite of the lightness of the tank only one plane had difficulty in releasing. On the average the tanks provided fuel for 1¼ hours' flight.

"BUREAU COMMENT:
"This installation appears to be OK. Douglas is incorporating in the earliest possible SBD a 58-gallon drop talk installation for each wing (differing somewhat from the one developed at Guadalcanal). Action is being taken to make the F4F, FM, TBF, TBM, SBD, and SB2C drop tanks interchangeable."

From the same (page 52)

AIRCRAFT DESIGN PROJECTS
. . .
VTB
. . .
"The wing drop tank installation (2-58 gal. tanks) on TBF-1 has been tested and found satisfactory. The contractor is proceeding with this change with the intention of incorporating it in all succeeding deliveries. Service installation kits will be forwarded to Aircraft, South Pacific, at high priority, and parts will be furnished later for service installation in the remainder of the airplanes delivered without this installation."

Mr Leonard,I have encountered a trouble:
During the build of Thach's #1,I found the transparent part for opened canopy was damaged(scratch),I tried to sand it and polish it but it seems hard to restore the original status.
To make a backup, I quickly masked another part for closed canopy.
But, back to the afternoon of Battle of Midway, Yorktown was assembling her wildcats to intercept Jap's torpedo planes, was a wildcat with the following character "reasonable" to exist on her deck?
Cowl Flaps: opened; Canopy:closed; Wings: one folded,one unfolded.
I had read a pilot manual and found those three character could be happen at one plane but everything has an exception not to mention the case was an emergency.
Technically I can fix the damaged part,just spend more time.
Thank you.