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The traditional name for the North sea is "The German Sea" or "German Ocean" from wiki...…... Before the adoption of "North Sea," the names used in English were "German Sea" or "German Ocean", referred to the Latin names "Mare Gemanicum" and "Oceanus Germanicus",[103] and these persisted in use until the First World WarIf I was in Southend and the World was flat then the next piece of high ground that I would be FACING would be the Ural Mountains in Russia.
While your post is quite informative, I fail to see how it relates to my post on Radar's role in how The Battle of Britain turned out....Whilst Hitler was grabbing countries in the West, Stalin was busy gobbling up the East, and looking hungrily at the Balkans, especially Hungary and Roumania. With the oilfields in these countries gone, it would have been all over the Master Race and their Third Reich.
While your post is quite informative, I fail to see how it relates to my post on Radar's role in how The Battle of Britain turned out....
I'm just changing the topic of discussion, its quite common here.
Yes Hitler's overall goal was to invade and beat the Soviet Union, but he also did not want to get into a two front war since he was well aware that is why Germany lost in WW1. Hitler was always going to make an attempt to invade the Soviet Union but the main reason he decided to do it in 1941, before beating the British was his belief that the only reason the British were holding out and not suing for peace was because the British were holding out for/expecting the Soviets to join the war on their side. Of course this was false but Hitler convinced himself of that, and decided an invasion as soon as possible was necessary.
Had the British sued for peace in 1940 then Hitler would have likely taken more time to get the preparations for the invasion of the Soviet Union right, or he could have turned his attention on Sweden for a little while. Either way though, without the British in the war the Germans would have had a much greater chance of beating the Soviet Union.
Interesting possibilities to consider. I've always been of the opinion that Germany lacked the means to invade England air superiority or not but who knows for sure.Are we so certain Germany couldn't have invaded if they had achieved air superiority? The channel isn't wide. Stukas and Ju 88s were pretty good at sinking ships. Did He 111's carry torpedoes by then? British battleships didn't fare well against Japanese air power early in the war. The combination of swarms of Stukas and Germany's own small but very tough navy might have been sufficient to control the waterway long enough for an invasion.
I know the Germans had a shortage of transport ships but maybe they could have borrowed some from Italy and taken over the French merchant fleet. The invasion of Crete shows that they could pull off a pretty impressive paratroop drop to help control a beach-head. It's an interesting scenario to consider.
To me assuming they could have controlled the airspace over the Channel I suspect they could have invaded, it may have been too thin of a pipe to get enough troops over fast enough though perhaps to actually win the resulting land battle. Could falschirmjaeger have held out long enough to let them bring tanks and big guns over ?
Significance to the thread is if there was a realistic possibility of a conquest of England in 1940 or 41 then perhaps the Hurricane or the Spitfire really is the single most important aircraft of the war. Otherwise I think we'd have to look at something from 1942, perhaps the Yak-1, Il2 or the SBD.
Are we so certain Germany couldn't have invaded if they had achieved air superiority? The channel isn't wide. Stukas and Ju 88s were pretty good at sinking ships. Did He 111's carry torpedoes by then? British battleships didn't fare well against Japanese air power early in the war. The combination of swarms of Stukas and Germany's own small but very tough navy might have been sufficient to control the waterway long enough for an invasion.
There was darn little french merchant fleet to grab, most had already fled if possible, a lost of the small stuff in the channel was either already gone or sunk at the docks. The Italians have to get by Gibraltar, not impossible but the losses will be pretty bad.I know the Germans had a shortage of transport ships but maybe they could have borrowed some from Italy and taken over the French merchant fleet. The invasion of Crete shows that they could pull off a pretty impressive paratroop drop to help control a beach-head. It's an interesting scenario to consider.
To me assuming they could have controlled the airspace over the Channel I suspect they could have invaded, it may have been too thin of a pipe to get enough troops over fast enough though perhaps to actually win the resulting land battle. Could falschirmjaeger have held out long enough to let them bring tanks and big guns over ?
Significance to the thread is if there was a realistic possibility of a conquest of England in 1940 or 41 then perhaps the Hurricane or the Spitfire really is the single most important aircraft of the war. Otherwise I think we'd have to look at something from 1942, perhaps the Yak-1, Il2 or the SBD.
What about landing craft? Without them, offloading could be disastrously slow. And what about embarkation? In the channel ports under British air and naval attack, or around the bend in the Bay of Biscay with a lengthy sea run under air and naval assault to deliver shiploads of seasick soldiers against determined defense?I know the Germans had a shortage of transport ships but maybe they could have borrowed some from Italy and taken over the French merchant fleet. The invasion of Crete shows that they could pull off a pretty impressive paratroop drop to help control a beach-head. It's an interesting scenario to consider.
If you want to discuss the hypothetical invasion of England by germany in 1940/41 this is the thread.
If the RAF had been defeated in the Battle of Britain
Are we so certain Germany couldn't have invaded if they had achieved air superiority? The channel isn't wide. Stukas and Ju 88s were pretty good at sinking ships. Did He 111's carry torpedoes by then? British battleships didn't fare well against Japanese air power early in the war. The combination of swarms of Stukas and Germany's own small but very tough navy might have been sufficient to control the waterway long enough for an invasion.
I know the Germans had a shortage of transport ships but maybe they could have borrowed some from Italy and taken over the French merchant fleet. The invasion of Crete shows that they could pull off a pretty impressive paratroop drop to help control a beach-head. It's an interesting scenario to consider.
To me assuming they could have controlled the airspace over the Channel I suspect they could have invaded, it may have been too thin of a pipe to get enough troops over fast enough though perhaps to actually win the resulting land battle. Could falschirmjaeger have held out long enough to let them bring tanks and big guns over ?
Significance to the thread is if there was a realistic possibility of a conquest of England in 1940 or 41 then perhaps the Hurricane or the Spitfire really is the single most important aircraft of the war. Otherwise I think we'd have to look at something from 1942, perhaps the Yak-1, Il2 or the SBD.
My take on Operation Sea Lion is that its like having a customer who wants you to do something but you don't want the business. So the German Navy came up with Sea Lion, an invasion on a broad front. I've read it, what a laugh, its the ultimate suicide mission. In which case, we can scrub the Hurricane and Spitfire off the list in the BoB.
In With Wings Like Eagles, Michael Korda speculates that during the chaos of Dunkirk, if the Germans had pushed an airborne landing immediately, and secured a field and port, perhaps it could have been followed by reinforcements by sea. But its all speculation, dangerous for a historian to do.
That would have required a massive operation put together "on the fly", something that probably would not have appealed to the methodical German military mind.during the chaos of Dunkirk, if the Germans had pushed an airborne landing immediately, and secured a field and port, perhaps it could have been followed by reinforcements by sea.
Why can we scrub the Hurricane and Spitfire off the list in the BoB? Is an invasion of the British Isles the only way Hitler could have achieved his objectives?