The airplane that did the most to turn the tide of the war.

[wuzak]

Do you have figures to prove that? Again we are talking about a bomb the weight of Tall Boy, reduced range and increased fuel consumption because of tropical conditions, flying at an altitude of 17,000 ft, possibly less at a speed of 162 mph to achieve sufficient range.

Neither of the atomic bombs used were the weight of the Tallboy bomb.

Little Boy would have had no bearing on performance, because it was below the normal maximum load of the aircraft (14,000lb) and did not require any bomb bay modifications - not even the bulged bomb bay doors required to fit the Tallboy, 8,000lb HC or 12,000lb HC bombs.

Fat Man would have cause performance problems because it would have been hanging in the breeze.

Again, why bother when, like Greyman suggested, the RAF use the Lincoln?

If they were available.

This is all outside of reality, and I don't believe the USAAF would have turned to the Brits at any rate, not with something as sensitive as the atomic bomb.

The Lancaster was considered earlier on because of the size and shape of the Thin Man bomb. The B-29 needed extensive modifications to carry this bomb - the Lancaster didn't.

In the end, the Thin Man was not used. The modifications for the B-29 to carry the other bombs was much less, mainly involving changing the bomb racks to a single bomb carry frame.

You are assuming that the British, at some level, were not aware of the atomic bomb project?

The Manhattan Project incorporated British research into atomic weapons, and probably a few personnel.

Niels Bohr was smuggled out of Sweden on a Mosquito operated by BOAC and worked with the British Nuclear program before consulting with the Manhattan Project.

 

[wuzak]

What was the distance of the atomic bomb flights? Just looking at the Tallboy Tirpitz strikes:

68,500 lb all up weight​

12,000 lb bomb​

2,400 miles​

According to Google, Tinian to Hiroshima was 2,526km (1,570mph). One way.

From Okinawa it was about half that.

 

[GrauGeist]

As Joe pointed out, the B-32 was there in the event the B-29 was not.

And for all the pros and cons of the Lancaster, consider that the Atom Bombs were dropped from 26,000 feet and the Lancaster's service ceiling was 21,000 feet at 63,000 pounds.

The B-29 was capable of lifting the necessary weight of the Atom Bombs, getting to the target area at the required altitude and doing so at a speed that made AA and interception difficult.

What would have been the back-up plan in case of no Wildcat? Just the Buffalo? (looking at Coral Sea/Midway)

The F4F was accepted into service with the USN at the end of 1940, so it's unlikely that it wouldn't have been available - however, there was the F2A and the F3F in service prior to 1940.
The Grumman F3F was a biplane, yes, but it did have good characteristics and would have had to shoulder the burden until the F4F (or an alternate) became available.
And as a side note: the SBDs contributed considerably during the battle of Coral Sea, driving off Japanese elements while they were serving as temporary CAP.

 

[Glider]

I would like to propose the VLR Liberator because without them there is a very good chance that the Battle of the Atlantic would have been lost.

 

[ykickamoocow]

I would like to propose the VLR Liberator because without them there is a very good chance that the Battle of the Atlantic would have been lost.

The Liberator definitely helped a lot but I heard it was a combination of things that won the battle of the Atlantic, and the Liberator was only one component of that?

 

[Greyman]

Would it have gotten to a point where Lancasters or Halifaxes were finally taken from Harris?

 

[pbehn]

I don't think you can design a bomb without a plane to drop it, if there wasn't a B-29 there would have been a different plane or a different bomb.

 

[pinehilljoe]

I consider the tide turning with Midway and the other battles in the 4th Quarter of 1942, with Midway, Guadalcanal, Torch and El Alamein, and Stalingrad. The aircraft in the period were the SDB, F-4F, and P-40 that turned the tide for the US. Many P-40s were sent to Russia. At least for the US, I would say the SBD was the aircraft that helped turned the tide in the Pacific.

 

[muskeg13]

The Boeing B-17, with Honorable Mention going to the Curtiss Hawk series. While the Lancaster, Halifax and Wellington were notable nocturnal bomb trucks, able to set fires in big cities causing lots of mayhem, it took daylight precision bombing, no matter how costly, to actually knock out the Nazi strategic targets. I mean, at least some of your bombs must hit in the intended target area to achieve the necessary effect. I mention the Hawk series, particularly the Model 75 exports because so many allied air forces used them with some success early in the conflict. Just think how bad/how long the war would have been without them soldiering on.

 

[Kevin J]

I consider the tide turning with Midway and the other battles in the 4th Quarter of 1942, with Midway, Guadalcanal, Torch and El Alamein, and Stalingrad. The aircraft in the period were the SDB, F-4F, and P-40 that turned the tide for the US. Many P-40s were sent to Russia. At least for the US, I would say the SBD was the aircraft that helped turned the tide in the Pacific.

The first allied victory in the PTO was achieved by the Aussies at Milne Bay. The aircraft that turned the tide was the Kittyhawk.

 

[wuzak]

The Boeing B-17, with Honorable Mention going to the Curtiss Hawk series. While the Lancaster, Halifax and Wellington were notable nocturnal bomb trucks, able to set fires in big cities causing lots of mayhem, it took daylight precision bombing, no matter how costly, to actually knock out the Nazi strategic targets. I mean, at least some of your bombs must hit in the intended target area to achieve the necessary effect.

Right. And you think that USAAF 8th AF precision bombing was actually precise?

Their accuracy was probably not much different to the Lancasters at night.

Also, when Lancasters were sent against the German oil industry they needed fewer sorties to knock the facilities out than did B-17s.

 

[mcoffee]

If it took 44s for the bomb to fall to detonation height, and the Enola Gay was 11.5 miles away, then the Enola Gay would have been travelling at around 940mph.

Something would seem to be amiss.

At 350mph, a B-29 would travel around 4.2 miles. At 280mph, a Lancaster would be ~2.3 miles away (assuming a reduced time of 30s for the drop).

11.5 miles was slant range from the point of detonation, not horizontal distance. The bomb was released at 31,060 and exploded at 1968 ft. The bomb continued forward from the release point while the Enola Gay immediately executed a 155 deg turn which was calculated to give maximum separation at time of detonation. Still the B-29 was tossed by the shockwave.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The Lancaster was considered earlier on because of the size and shape of the Thin Man bomb. The B-29 needed extensive modifications to carry this bomb - the Lancaster didn't.

In the end, the Thin Man was not used. The modifications for the B-29 to carry the other bombs was much less, mainly involving changing the bomb racks to a single bomb carry frame.

Actually the modifications needed to carry an atomic bomb on a B-29 involved the modification of the bulkhead that separated the bomb bays. This modification was known as "Operation Silverplate" and IIRC was eventually incorporated on production line aircraft as well as on the later B-50.

Gentlemen - in discussing this thread I think it's going to be difficult to really argue for a specific aircraft as the war in the Pacific was a lot different than in Europe, in Africa or over the Med. There were several aircraft that made a difference but I think it would be hard to nail it down to one specific airframe.

BUT - IMO the closest aircraft you're going to find to meet this criteria was IMO the "best" over-all aircraft of WW2, if not of all time - that being the C-47!!!

 

[pbehn]

The Manhattan Project incorporated British research into atomic weapons, and probably a few personnel.

.

A local community centre here in NE England was used in the early days of nuclear research which, is more distillation/chemistry than physics. One of the rooms was lined with lead on all the walls and ceilings.

 

[Glider]

The Liberator definitely helped a lot but I heard it was a combination of things that won the battle of the Atlantic, and the Liberator was only one component of that?

It was of course a combination of things but only the VLR Liberator could fill the gap in the middle of the Atlantic and it was only constant air cover that forced the U Boats to submerge. Thus making it much harder for the convoys to be tracked, wolf packs to be formed and the attacks undertaken. There were a number of cases where with an aircraft overhead attacks were almost negligible, but once the aircraft left the U Boats would attack.

 

[Shortround6]

The SBD was a very good airplane but it was simply in the right place at the right time at Midway. There was no outstanding characteristic of the SBD that the results of the battle hinged on. The SBDs had NOT fought off interceptors to get to the bombing positions. It had not required a radius of action that other planes did not have, it didn't even require anything out of the ordinary in regards to bomb load.
Yes it delivered the mortal blow to Japanese carrier aviation and so turned the tide of the war in the Pacific.

 

[GrauGeist]

The SBDs also played a key role in the Battle of Coral Sea, too.

I understand that the SBD was "the right plane at the right time", but then again, so was the Hurricane, the F4F, the P-40 and so on.

 

[MycroftHolmes]

The standard Lancaster used low-altitude Merlins because flying higher would leave contrails, which would serve as a 'This way to the bomber' trail, but the Mark VI Lancaster, which was issued to 635 Squadron in 1944 could cruise happily at 28-30,000 feet as they were fitted with high-altitude engines.

 

[BiffF15]

I'm going to go with two choices. The first was touched / flown by almost every Allied pilot during the war, and the second because it was there, in the heat, cold, deserts, and mountains.

1. T-6 / SNJ Texan / Harvard
2. C-47 Dakota / Skytrain

Cheers,
Biff

 

[michael rauls]

I think the C47 is a great pick. I had not considered it as turning the tide but now that I think about it having such an effective trasport( another Douglas product by the way...... just thought I'd throw that in) certainly contributed to turning the tide in all theaters.
If you have the equipment you need and the other guy doesn't, like in north Africa for example, that certainly tends to turn the tide.