THE AVRO CF-105 ARROW - WAS IT REALLY THAT GOOD?!?

[FLYBOYJ]

If the Project arrow was not cancelled, the aviation in Canada would be the same?

I don't think so - I think Canada would of had more influence in US policy during the cold war years as well as with the defence of North America, she would of retained many of its citizens who immigrated into the US in the early 1960s and might of been a much larger player in the commercial aircraft market. IMO the cancellation of the project was a forfeit of some of Canada's sovereignty. Peter Charles Newman eluded to this situation in his book "True north, not strong and free."

 

[ArrowZero]

The Avro Arrow was the best airplane of that time , if so, Canada would have been rich selling the airplane to the world. Today, Avro could have been more important in the aviation industry?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You do mean that as a question correct?

Because a plane that was only test flown can not be the best of its time.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The Avro Arrow was the best airplane of that time

It had the potential to be one of the best combat aircraft in it's era for the role it was designed for, IMO...

 

[pbfoot]

The Arrow was in production so it was more then just a test bird but we could not afford it. But I regress what is the matter with our aero space industry. We manufacture the most used engine in the world with the PT6 ,CAE is an absolute leader in flight sims , Bombardier I believe leads in the commuter airline business with the Challenger and Dash aircraft

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The Arrow was in production so it was more then just a test bird but we could not afford it.

Those first 6 aircraft were still considered prototypes and the production contract was not awarded - it was a matter of funding the program or not and the Conservative government at that time chose to kill it.

But I regress what is the matter with our aero space industry. We manufacture the most used engine in the world with the PT6 ,CAE is an absolute leader in flight sims , Bombardier I believe leads in the commuter airline business with the Challenger and Dash aircraft

PT6 production was given to Pratt's Canadian division as a result of offset agreements with Pratt (the entire corporation) and the Canadain government. As far as the other products all good but regards to the commuters - most of the companies producing those aircraft barely managed to make money until now. Bombardier got it together - Canadair was an example of bad socialism and de Havilland wasn't making money. Companies like Bristol and IMP made it because they were privately owned..

Had the Arrow been built I believe Canada would of had a more capable aerospace industry (not that its not capable now).

 

[pbfoot]

I think I'm going to disagree on the PT 6 it was a Canadian design and build. Design started in 56 at PWC in Longueil PQ. First flown in a Beech 18 from Downsview in Toronto

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think I'm going to disagree on the PT 6 it was a Canadian design and build. Design started in 56 at PWC in Longueil PQ. First flown in a Beech 18 from Downsview in Toronto

I'll stand to somewhat be corrected - yes it was designed at Longueil. The plan was to have it replace the smaller radial lines PWC was building at the time while P&W concentrated on larger turbine engines. Despite that PWC is a business unit of United Technologies. United Technologies is still US owned...

 

[pbfoot]

Anything us socialists can do to keep you imperialists going

 

[mkloby]

I think I'm going to disagree on the PT 6 it was a Canadian design and build. Design started in 56 at PWC in Longueil PQ. First flown in a Beech 18 from Downsview in Toronto

Absolutely FANTASTIC series of turbine engines!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Anything us socialists can do to keep you imperialists going

Only if you're the F-104 VP of Programs at Canadair in 1988!!!

 

[pbfoot]

Only if you're the F-104 VP of Programs at Canadair in 1988!!!

I do believe I could find similar examples to the south of me like this bridge

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Must of been funded by a liberal spending bill!

 

[SoD Stitch]

That's almost as bad as the freeway intersection to nowhere they built down in San Jose in the '70's; they finally finsished it, but for a long time there were two overpasses up in the air that didn't touch the ground. Sammy Hagar shot the pictures for the back cover of his album Street Machine on it in.

 

[arrowrec]

Please check out the link on our first page,This Is Who Caused The Cancellation of the Arrow?
I hope this helps, cost over runs did not destroy this a/c or Avro Canada.
Every couple of years new secret files open, this article is the result of the last bunch being declassified.
Did you know the USAF ORDERED $20 million dollars worth of Avro Jetliners?!
Seems that CD Howe was a traitor and never passed the orders on to the company.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Please check out the link on our first page,This Is Who Caused The Cancellation of the Arrow?
I hope this helps, cost over runs did not destroy this a/c or Avro Canada.
Every couple of years new secret files open, this article is the result of the last bunch being declassified.
Did you know the USAF ORDERED $20 million dollars worth of Avro Jetliners?!
Seems that CD Howe was a traitor and never passed the orders on to the company.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Do you honestly believe that if a major purchase of AVRO airliners was being contemplated, Howe would of been the only one to know?!?!? If this was true there would of been DOZENS of people from the USAF and DoD talking to AVRO's marketing department. Procurement of aircraft doesn't lay with "one man passing information." There's a very complex process that happenes and it involves dozens of people....

Once again this is another fairy tale as such with most of the speculation on your site. I suggest looking at photos from area 51 to find the answer you're looking for....

 

[arrowrec]

Yes, as he was the minister responsible for the Jetliner, as the Jetliner was a government sponsored (owned) project. Howe was a Northstar (Canadair) suporter. So much so, the first NS to roll off the line was christened by his wife and named after her.
Moving on, Howard Hughes wanted a fleet of them for his TWA and National airlines tried to place orders also.
I think that the success of the Jetliner brought the downfall of the Arrow.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Yes, as he was the minister responsible for the Jetliner, as the Jetliner was a government sponsored (owned) project. Howe was a Northstar (Canadair) suporter. So much so, the first NS to roll off the line was christened by his wife and named after her.
Moving on, Howard Hughes wanted a fleet of them for his TWA and National airlines tried to place orders also.
I think that the success of the Jetliner brought the downfall of the Arrow.

You're theory...

As stated, one man alone doesn't hold the key when an entire air force is interested in the procurement of an aircraft - If Hughes was serious in buying them who would of....

The Arrow was doomed 2 years before Black Thursday - there's no malicious American plot, no hidden agenda, no cloak and dagger - As stated, she had great potential but technology would of quickly passed her.

 

[Matt308]

C'mon FBJ. Certainly the 95% efficient engines and supercruise were squashed by US interests. Nothing remotely comparable to the NA RA-5C Vigilante performance. It was all stolen I say.