The Best Bf - 109 Variant ?

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Yes, reading is a terrible thing to waste.

One thing you might read Krazee Kunuckistani are the accounts of how exasperated the Spit Pilots were with 109's. They could not catch them unless the 109's chose to turn with them. They couldn't catch them in dives and they couldn't catch them in zoom climbs. And thats the way it was from the first day of the war to the last.



Its gotta hurt to be so fully off base. This Experten died in a collision with debris per his wingman. The British say something else, but who believes them. One pass two 109's. Two downed Spitfires and a mistake in the egress path. This is the way the war went:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/muncheberg.html
 
Here is an interesting comparison between the Bf-109E and the Spitfire Mk. I:

And here is one for the Me-109G and the Spitfire Mk. IX:

[quote:3b4ebed288]
Spitfire Mk IX and Me 109 G
A Performance Comparison
.......The Spitfire IX was a Spitfire VC modified to incorporate a two speed, two stage version of the Merlin engine. This engine, the Merlin 61 initially, replaced the single speed, single stage Merlin 45 or 46 installed in Spitfire Vs. The conversion from Spitfire V to Spitfire IX also required new engine cowlings, a four-bladed Rotol propeller, and two thermostatically controlled radiators.

.......Deliveries of the Spitfire Mk IX began in June 1942 with No. 64 Squadron of the Hornchurch Wing the first to go operational with the type on 28 July 1942. Success followed quickly as on the 30th 5 FW 190s were destroyed. No. 611 began taking deliveries of Spitfire IXs on 23 July 1942 while at Redhill, a satellite field to Kenley. First operation took place on 5 August, covering the 308th FS USAAF to Le Touquet, with the first success, a FW 190 destroyed and 2 damaged coming on the 17th. No. 401 RCAF started taking deliveries of Spitfire IXs at the end of July, fully converted with the move to Biggin Hill 2 August, performed their first operations with the Spitfire IX on 6 August 1942 and met with their first success on the 17th when they claimed 1 FW190 destroyed, 5 190 probables with 1 damaged. No. 402 RCAF fully converted to Spitfire IXs by 2 August at Redhill with the first operations taking place on 13 August, moved to Kenley on the 14th, their first claim in the type of 1 damaged coming on the 17th. Its notable that Nos. 64, 611, 401, and 402 acting in concert flying their Spitfire IXs, escorted USAAF B-17s on some of their first missions; to Rouen on the 17th, Abbeville on the 19th, Amiens on the 20th, Le Trait on the 24th, Rotterdam on the 27th, Meaulte on the 28th, and Courtrai on the 29th. This signified a change in the air war in the European Theater of Operations.

....... These early Spitfire IXs were equipped with the Merlin 61, giving 1565 hp at +15 lbs./sq.in. boost and 3,000 rpm (5 minute combat). Maximum level speed was 403 m.p.h. at 27,400 ft. Maximum rate of climb was 3860 ft./min at 12,600 ft. The Merlin 61 was phased out early in 1943 in favour of the Merlin 63, 66 and 70. These new engines had increased power resulting from engine improvements and engine limitations of +18 lbs./sq.in and 3,000 rpm (5 minute combat). The Merlin 63 engined Spitfire IXs first entered service in February 1943 with the Hornchurch and North Weald Wings, but most initally were shipped to North Africa and Malta. Maximum power of the Merlin 63 was 1,710 b.h.p. at 8,500 ft. Maximum speed of the Spitfire F.IX was 408 m.p.h. at 25,000 ft. The LF IX, equipped with the Merlin 66 and frequently referred to as the Spitfire IXB, first went operational in March 1943 with the Biggin Hill Wing, comprised at the time of Nos. 611 and 341 Squadrons. This type was by far the most produced of the Spitfire IX varients. Maximum power of the Merlin 66 was 1,720 b.h.p. at 5,750 ft. Maximum speed of the Spitfire LF.IX was 404 m.p.h. at 21,000 ft. The HF IX, equipped with the high altitude specialized Merlin 70, also entered service in the Spring of 1943, being divvied up amongst the Spitfire IX squadrons in 11 Group with No. 64 squadron amongst the first to put the type to use. Maximum power of the Merlin 70 was 1,710 b.h.p. at 11,000 ft. Maximum speed of the Spitfire HF.IX was 416 m.p.h. at 27,500 ft. All-up weight was about 7,450 lbs. irrespective of varient.

.......The Spitfire performance results shown below were obtained by the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment at Boscombe Down. The results given in the reports were corrected to standard atmospheric conditions by the methods of report No. A. A.A.E.E./Res/170 or A. A.E.E. Memorandum dated 27.8.42. The level speed results were corrected to 95% of the take-off weights, while climb results were based on all-up weights. Level speed tests were done with radiator flaps closed while climb tests were done with radiator flaps open.

.......The ME 109 G differed from its predecessor, the Me 109 F-4, primarily in the replacement of the DB 601 E engine with the the DB 605 A. A total of 167 Me 109 G-1s were built. They entered service with elements of JG 2 in June-July 1942. Prien Rodeike write "Deliveries of the G-2 to the Jagdgeschwader began in June 1942. The first mention of a G-2 in loss reports appears in July 7, 1942." and "The G6 began reaching the front-line units in February 1943. … The first G-6 fighters were delivered to Jagdgruppen in the Mediterranean area in February 1943 and saw action with JG 53 and JG 77, as well as II./JG 27 and II./JG 51. The first recorded loss of a G-6 occurred on March 4, 1943". The DB 605 A engine equipped the G-1 through G-6 during the mid war years of 1942-43. The engine limitations were 1.3 ata/2600 rpm in accordance with VT-Anweisung Nr.2206 through 1942 and most, if not all, of 1943. The BF 109 G-2, G-4, G6 Service Instruction from June 1943 states:


Evidence points to the DB 605 A not being fully cleared for 1.42 ata/2800 rpm before spring 1944 (Bf109 G-4/R3, G-6/R3 Bedienungsvorschrift-F1 Ausgabe Februar 1944). Flying weights of the G-1 through G-6 were about 6,834 to 6,944 lbs.
.......The results of the German trials were corrected to standard temperature and correct setting of the supercharger regulator. Level speed tests were done with radiator flaps in minimum drag position (approx. 50 mm) while climb tests were done with radiator flaps partly open as necessary to maintain proper coolant temperatures (approx 85 deg C). The DB 605 A engine limitations during the performance trials were 1.3 ata and 2600 U/min.

.......The charts below reflect performance representative of the mid war period 1942-43.



.......It will be noted that the various German level speed trials results, primarily from the Messerschmitt's Flugerprobung (flight testing) Department, are in good agreement and correspond reasonably well to the figures of the Me 109 G-6 from GL/C-E2 Flugzeug-Entwicklungs-Blatt BF 109. The "average basic model" curve comes from a report compiling data from 25 different flight trials comprising 90 different aircraft (the report states (weit über 100!), however some aircraft were tested and counted more than once), corrected to standard conditions with the results adjusted to the basic model Me 109 G-1 (Grundausführung). Die Kurve ist ein Mittelwert aus den umgerechneten Leistungsmessungen. The varying full throttle heights of the three Merlins can be readily seen.



Other non-German Me 109 G trials with aircraft in mid-war condition are of passing interest. First there is the Russian data on Me 109 G-2 Wk. Nr. 14513 showing 414 mph at 22,965 feet. While the conditions of the test and aircraft are unclear, the results can be partially understood when the following is taken into account: the engine powers were abnormal (1300 ch at 19,029 feet) and the full throttle height was far above average (Russian - 22,965 feet, German average from flight tests - 21,653 feet). Since the Russian figures exceed the German, they will occasionally be put forth as representative. The Finnish trials of a Me 109 G-2 is another data set occasionally used to describe 109 G performance. Maximum speed reached was 395 mph at 21,062 feet, which is close to the German figures. A closer look shows that the Finnish results are rather stronger at low altitude and significantly weaker above full throttle height as compared to the German figures. Where on the one hand the Finnish level speed figures generate little enthusiasm, the climb results, in contrast, are held in high regard by some. The Finnish climb results exceed the German results by better than 550 ft/min. at sea level and full throttle height (18,700 feet FTH for Finnish and German). While this degree of separation is likely due to different test protocols and correction methods, the spike on the Finnish curve, exceeding German figures by 1,410 ft/min and readily apparent when superimposed on the German curves, must be dismissed as aberrant.

.......The conclusions of a February 1947 Air Ministry report on Air Fighting Tactics Used By Spitfire Squadrons, summing up the experience in Western Europe, demonstrates that the comparisons charted above with respect to the Spitfire IXB, held in battle:



Diving speeds compared:
Flying Limitations of the Spitfire IX (from Pilot's Notes)
Maximum speeds in m.p.h I.A.S.
Diving (without external stores), corresponding to a Mach No. of -85:


Between S.L. and 20,000 ft. -450
20,000 and 25,000 ft. -430
25,000 and 30,000 ft. -390
30,000 and 35,000 ft. -340
Above ..................35,000 ft. -310

Spitfire Mk. XI: Mach .89 in dive

Flying Limitations of the Me 109 G (from: Technical Instructions of the Generalluftzeugmeister, Berlin, 28th August 1942.)

Reference Me 109 - wing breakages. Owing to continually recurring accidents caused by wing breakages in Me 109 aircraft attention is drawn to the following:

.......(1) The maximum permissible indicated airspeeds in the different heights are not being observed and are widely exceeded. On the basis of evidence which is now available the speed limitations ordered by teleprint message GL/6 No. 2428/41 of 10.6.41 are cancelled and replaced by the following data:


Up to 3 km (9,842 ft.) 750 km/h. (466 m.p.h.)
At 5 km (16,404 ft) 700 km/h. (435 m.p.h.)
At 7 km (22,965 ft) 575 km/h. (357 m.p.h.)
At 9 km (29,527 ft) 450 km/h. (280 m.p.h.)
At 11 km (36,089 ft) 400 km/h. (248 m.p.h.)

.......These limitations are valid for the time being for all building series including the Me 109 G. A corresponding notice is to be placed upon all air-speed indicators in aircraft.

.......(2) Yawing in a dive leads to high one-sided wing stresses which, under certain circumstances, the wing tip cannot support. When a yawing condition is recognised the dive is to be broken off without exercising force. In a flying condition of yawing and turning at the same time correction must be made with the rudder and not the ailerons. The condition of wing tips is to be examined and checked with TAGL. Bf 109 Nos. 5/41 and 436/41.

.......(3) Unintentional unlocking of the undercarriage in a dive leads also - especially if only one side unlocks - to high wing stresses. Observation and the carrying out of TAGL. No. 11/42 and the following numbers is, therefore specially important.
Note. Trouble has been experienced owing to undercarriage unlocking in a dive and a modification has been brought out to prevent this.

.......The dive speed limits listed above are also to be found in Vorläufige Fluggenehmigung BF 109 G-2 and G-6

Dive limitations from: Bf 109 G-2, G-4, G-6 Bedienungsvorschrift, June 1943 edition

.......Dive: Adjust trim in s
 
A interesting serie of color profiles.


Messerschmitt Me 109E-3
4. Staffel, II. Gruppe, JG 77
Pilot: Oberleutnant Helmut Henz (Staffelkapitän)
Poland, September 1939




Messerschmitt Me 109E-1
Stab, JG 53
Pilot: Oberleutnant Wilfried Balfanz
Kirchberg im Hunsrück, Germany, Autumn 1939




Messerschmitt Me 109E-3
Stab, JG53
Pilot: Major Hans-Jurgen von Cramon-Taubadel (Geschwader Kommodore)
Thevile-Maupertus (Cherbourg-Ost), France, August 1940



This 109E-3 has an interesting story attached to the markings. Major von Cramon-Taubadel was married to a Jewish wife, a fact which came to the attention of Hermann Goering during the Battle of France. As a result he ordered that the whole of JG 53 must remove their famous Ace of Spades badge and paint a red band around the noses of their aircraft as a mark of shame. In the Autumn of 1940 von Cramon-Taubadel was removed as Geschwader Kommodore and Goering told them they could reinstate their "Pik-As" badge; this they did but at the same time, as a mark of protest, all the pilots of JG 53 had the Swastikas painted over on their aircraft. Thus it is easy to recognise JG 53 109's late in the Battle of Britain as they have no Swastikas on them.



Messerschmitt Me 109F-2
1. Staffel, I. Gruppe, JG3
Pilot: Oberleutnant Robert Olejnik (Staffelkapitän)
Eastern Front, Summer 1941



Here a Me 109F-2 on the Eastern Front not long after the initial German invasion of the USSR. The basic camouflage is of RLM02 Grau and RLM70 Schwarzgrün in a splinter pattern on top with RLM76 Lichtblau underneath and sides, the blue having a mottling of both the grey and the green over it on the sides. Yet again we have considerable use of yellow identification paint under the nose, wingtips and band around the rear fuselage



http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/
 
If by "best" one looks at how the varient stacked up against its comtemporaneous adversaries, I'd say the Bf 109F was "best". Early '42 was when the 109, imo, had the largest edge over its opposition.

p.s. I found those Spit/109 comparisons copied above at: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spittest.html

Interesting reading... Apparently there is some real 109 flight trials datas there! That's refreshing after seeing mostly calculated stuff on the BF 109.
 
I'm surprised Soren is going nuts over Alders post!

8)

Lunatic
 
After lots of tests with the La-5FN, these were some of the conclusions...

The testing was carried out in September 1944 at Gross Schimanen, East Prussia.

Turning circles:

"The smallest turning circle at rated power at 2400m is about 28/30 sec for a stable 360 degree turn at constant height. This implies a minimum time for a 360 degree turn at 1000m, with emergency power, of about 25 sec."

The tactical conclusions and advice offered to German fighter pilots:

"The La 5FN is best suited to low altitude combat by virtue of its engine performance. Its top speed at ground level is slightly below that of the 190 and 109 (using MW 50). The 109 with MW 50 is superior over the whole height band in top speed and climb rate. Acceleration is comparable. Aileron effectiveness is better than the 109. Turning times at ground level are better than the 190 and worse than the 109.
In rate of climb the 190 is poorer until 3000m. Because of its greater weight the 190 accelerates less well than the La5FN, but by the same token is superior in the dive. It is basically right to dive away like an American Thunderbolt when flying a 190, thereafter to pull away in a high speed shallow climb to reach a new attacking position, not to let the speed drop and to avoid prolonged turning dogfights."



Source: "Luftwaffe Test Pilot" by Hans Werner Lerche. He flew virtually all captured Allied aircraft and most German types, including experimental models.

These tests should be regarded as atleast as reliable as Allied tests !

Hans Werner Lerche:


The La-5FN in question:
 
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