The Best Bf - 109 Variant ?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Bf-109Z actually never flew so what kind of problems it had will never be known. The only prototype built was damaged in an air attack while on the ground.

Bf-109Z

The Messerschmitt development department received a directive in 1942 to begin work on a Zerstörer (destroyer, or heavy fighter). An earlier RLM directive of 1941 had tried to limit the amount of new designs coming from the major aircraft companies (to not disrupt the production lines with new aircraft), so it was decided to couple two Bf 109 fuselages together, along with a new center wing and tailplane section, to come up with the Me 109Z (Zwilling, or twin).
The Me 109Z prototype incorporated two Bf 109F-4 fuselages, joined with a new constant chord wing center section and parallel chord tailplane. Included also was the 109F-4 powerplant, the Daimler Benz DB 601E-1 engine (12 cylinder, liquid-cooled, inverted V - 1750 horsepower on takeoff). The main landing gear attachment point were moved inboard to attach to a strengthened centerline keel in each fuselage. The outermost main landing gear retracted outboard; the inner legs retracted into the new center wing section. A single pilot sat in the port cockpit and the starboard cockpit was faired over. Armament on the projected production models varied (see below).
Several other Me 109Z designs were planned, developed around the 109G fuselages. The Me 109Z was to use around 90% of pre-existing 109 parts, with only the new main wing and tailplane, modified landing gear mountings, slightly larger wheels, extra fuel tanks in place of the starboard cockpit and a few other components needed to complete the aircraft. A prototype was completed in early 1943, but it was damaged in an Allied air attack on the Messerschmitt test center, and the damage was deemed too severe for repair. The development was abandoned in 1944, and by then, the Me 262 jet fighter had taken wing. One interesting note: the North American aircraft company followed the same design (independently) to produce the P-82 Twin Mustang, which was two P-51 fuselages joined in a similar manner as the Me 109Z.

Span: 13.27 m 43' 6"
Length: 9.048 m 29' 8"
Height: 2.69 m 8' 10"
Empty Weight: 6000 kg 13224 lbs
Loaded Weight: 7280 kg 16050 lbs
Max. Speed: 743 km/h @ 8000 m 462 mph @ 26250'
Cruising Speed: 570 km/h @ 3000 m 354 mph @ 9840'
Service Ceiling: 11700 m 38385'

*Obviously the Speed stats and the Ceiling stats can not be confirmed as the aircraft never flew.

Me 109Z Prototype
Fuselage: 2 x Bf 109F-4
No armament
Engines: 2 x DB 601E-1

Me 109Z-2 Bomber
Fuselage: 2 x 109G-6
Armament: 2 x MK 108, 2 x MK 103
1 x 500 kg bomb
Engines: 2 x DB 605A-1

Me 109Z-3 Zerstörer
Fuselage: 2 x Bf 109H-2
Armament: 4 x MK 108, 1 x MK 103
1 x 500 kg bomb
Engines: 2 x Jumo 213E

Me 109Z-4 Bomber
Fuselage: 2 x Bf 109H-2
Armament: 2 x MK 108, 2x 1000 kg bombs
Engines: 2 x Jumo 213E

http://www.luft46.com/mess/me109z.html

Here is another interesting Me-109 conversion that also never made it being canceled when the Me-262 came online.

Me-109TL

The Messerschmitt 109 Turbo-Lader Strahltriebwerk ( turbocharger jet engine) was proposed on January 22, 1943 at an RLM conference as a back-up for the Me 262, of which only three prototypes had been completed at the time. In order to cut down on design and production time, various components from existing aircraft was to be used. The fuselage from the Me 155B high-altitude fighter was to be used (with a new nose and tail section), the wing was from the Me 409 project and the undercarriage came from the Me 309. The armament was to be two MG 151/20 20mm cannon (120 rounds each) and two MK 103 30mm cannon, all in the nose. A later proposal included two MK 108 30mm cannon could be installed in the wing roots. The performance was estimated to be better than the Me 262 due to the Me 109 TL's narrower fuselage. Following intensive study, by March 1943 it was decided that so many modifications to the various components would be needed that no time would be gained over the Me 262 development, thus the project was abandoned.
Span: 12.55 m (41' 2")
Length: 9.5 m (31' 2")
Max. Speed: 980 km/h (609 mph)

*Speed cannot be confirmed again as aircraft never flew.
http://www.luft46.com/mess/me109tl.html

 

[cheddar cheese]

Yeah ive seen the 190TL before. It looks remarkably similar to the 262.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yeah i think the -109TL should have been re-designated, it wasn't much of a -109.......

 

[cheddar cheese]

Same basic fuselage and, er, thats about it

 

[CharlesBronson]

Another interesting variants was the H, high altitude figther.

BF-109H-O, used F version fuselage.

Motor : DB 601E 1350 hp
wingspan : 11,92 m
Lenght : 8,85 m
Max weight : 3800 kg
Max speed: 750 km/h
Ceiling : 14600 m
Armament 1xMK-108 2 MG 17

H-2:

Motor : Jumo 213 E / DB 605 E 1776 hp
wingspan : 11,92 m
Lenght : 8,85 m
Armament: 1 MK 108 2 MG 151/20 + 2 MK 108 or 2 MG 131

 

[Erich]

The Bf 109H was used as high altitude recon a/c not a fighter........

 

[CharlesBronson]

So heavily armed...?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It was originally concieved as a heavily armed high alltitude fighter but none of this type were ever produced. Only a few made it to units for recon.

A small batch of Bf-109H-0 pre-production aircraft was followed by an equally small production run of Bf-109H-1 fighters. These aircraft were powered by a 1,300 hp DB601E and was armed with two MG 17 machine guns and a single 30mm MK 108 cannon, all in the nose. The aircraft was capable of attaining an absolute altitude of 44,000 feet; no mean accomplishment in those days. Though several other developments were proposed, including a dedicated reconnaissance version and a heavily armed fighter, none were built. A few aircraft were delivered to a Channel coast reconnaissance unit, 3.(F)/121, based at Bernay in April of 1944. However, in all my years of reading and research, I have never seen a single picture of a Bf-109H.

 

[Erich]

Friend Dave Wadman from Canada has produced a book on the Recon units and describes H's flown on the recon duties, very few of course as the 109G was available in sufficient numbers.

E

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I always thought it was only about 3-5 109H's that made it into units. There was problems with the aircraft from the onset as the original prototype was just a Bf-109F that had its wings lenghened inserting a 2 meter wing section and bracing the tail plane. The aircraft could only read about 44,000ft and had several problems with wing flutter, one even losing a wing in a dive in April 1944. At one point they discussed converting a Me-209 into a High Alltitude fighter but the whole program was dropped in favor of the Ta-152.

Here is some info on the 209 which was originally designed as a race aircraft.

Messerschmitt's designation Me 209 was actually used for two separate projects during World War II. The first Me 209 was a record-setting single-engined race plane for which little or no consideration was given to adaptation for combat. The second, described below, was the Me 209-II, a proposal for an enhanced version of the highly successful Messerschmitt Bf 109 which served as the Luftwaffe's primary fighter throughout World War II.


Me 209 V5The second incarnation of the Me 209 project came in 1943 when Willy Messerschmitt proposed an heavily modified version of his extremely successful but aging Me 109. This Me 209 would compete against Focke-Wulf's high performance Fw 190D-9 and Ta 152 fighters. Like these enhanced versions of Kurt Tank's design, the new Me 209 would share most of its airframe with a proven model, in this case the Me 109G. This marked a departure from the first failed Me 209 and later Me 309 projects which had proposed completely new designs.

Unfortunately for the design team, the Me 209's proposed DB 603 engine was in short supply and they were forced to use the Jumo 213E engine which offered inferior performance. The Me 209 featured a new tail section, broad-track landing gear, a taller tail, and an annular radiator which gave the engine a superficial resemblance to a radial powerplant. As with the original 209 project, however, successive modifications undermined the orginal purpose of the plane, in this case to build a superior fighter as similar to the existing Me 109G as possible.

As the project progressed, increasingly cumbersome designations signalled the Me 209's evolution from a simple, enhanced version of the Bf 109 to a progressively incompatible airframe. The Me 209 V5 featured armament of one MK 108 and two MG 131 in the wingroots. The V6 was the first version to be converted to use the Jumo 213 engine and had MG 151/20 guns instead of the MG 131. The Me 209H V1 was a high-altitude variant with extended wings and reverted to the DB 603.

Despite this proliferation of variants however, the program met a swift end when the Me 209 V5 prototype first flew in late 1944. It was 50 km/h (31 mph) slower than the already-available Fw 190D, however, and offered no improvement in handling characteristics. After its disappointing show, the Me 209 project was cancelled and with it ended Messerschmitt's last attempt to build a high-performance piston engine fighter.

General characteristics
Crew: one, pilot
Length: 9.74 m (31 ft 11 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
Height: 4.00 m (13 ft 1 in)
Wing area: 17.2 m² (185 ft²)
Empty: 3,339 kg (7,346 lb)
Loaded: 4,085 kg (8,987 lb)
Maximum takeoff: kg ( lb)
Powerplant: 1x Db 603G, 1,397 kW (1,900 hp)

Performance
Maximum speed: 678 km/h (423 mph)
Range: 600 km (374 miles)
Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,080 ft)
Rate of climb: m/min ( ft/min)
Wing loading: 238 kg/m² (49 lb/ft²)
Power/Mass: 0.36 kW/kg (0.22 hp/lb)

Armament
1x 30 mm MK 108 cannon
2x 13 mm MG 131 machine guns
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_209-II

 

[Soren]

Some interesting info on the elevator-problems accuring with the 109 high speeds. (It seems that problems only accure above 800km/h ! )

 

[KraziKanuK]

Reference Me 109 - wing breakages. Owing to continually recurring accidents caused by wing breakages in Me 109 aircraft attention is drawn to the following:

.......(1) The maximum permissible indicated airspeeds in the different heights are not being observed and are widely exceeded. On the basis of evidence which is now available the speed limitations ordered by teleprint message GL/6 No. 2428/41 of 10.6.41 are cancelled and replaced by the following data:

Up to 3 km (9,842 ft.) 750 km/h. (466 m.p.h.)
At 5 km (16,404 ft) 700 km/h. (435 m.p.h.)
At 7 km (22,965 ft) 575 km/h. (357 m.p.h.)
At 9 km (29,527 ft) 450 km/h. (280 m.p.h.)
At 11 km (36,089 ft) 400 km/h. (248 m.p.h.)

.......These limitations are valid for the time being for all building series including the Me 109 G. A corresponding notice is to be placed upon all air-speed indicators in aircraft.

As can be seen the 109 could only reach high speeds in a dive below 3km.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Are you sure that is only in a dive, it sounds like the report says in level flight. The one up top says dive yes, but the one on the bottom.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Are you sure that is only in a dive, it sounds like the report says in level flight. The one up top says dive yes, but the one on the bottom.

Yes those are dive speeds.

 

[DJ_Dalton]

Reference Me 109 - wing breakages. Owing to continually recurring accidents caused by wing breakages in Me 109 aircraft attention is drawn to the following:

.......(1) The maximum permissible indicated airspeeds in the different heights are not being observed and are widely exceeded. On the basis of evidence which is now available the speed limitations ordered by teleprint message GL/6 No. 2428/41 of 10.6.41 are cancelled and replaced by the following data:

Up to 3 km (9,842 ft.) 750 km/h. (466 m.p.h.)
At 5 km (16,404 ft) 700 km/h. (435 m.p.h.)
At 7 km (22,965 ft) 575 km/h. (357 m.p.h.)
At 9 km (29,527 ft) 450 km/h. (280 m.p.h.)
At 11 km (36,089 ft) 400 km/h. (248 m.p.h.)

.......These limitations are valid for the time being for all building series including the Me 109 G. A corresponding notice is to be placed upon all air-speed indicators in aircraft.

As can be seen the 109 could only reach high speeds in a dive below 3km.

I guess what Crazy Kanuck is saying is that the Bf-109's couldn't outdive Spitfires. You'd think someome making that implied assertion would link to the whole document. 6/10/41 max speed of 248 at 36K? Maybe. The 109F did have some early structural issues and I wouldn't be surprised if this is what is being referred to. Well, the F slaughtered the contemporary Spitfires....lol

This is too funny.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No I was just wondering because it did not say dive speeds, but then again a Bf-109F could not reach any speeds near 400 mph so that would definatly make sense.

 

[KraziKanuK]

TROLL, no implied assertion but then I can't help you with your lack of reading ability.

Flying Limitations of the Spitfire IX (from Pilot's Notes)
Maximum speeds in m.p.h I.A.S.
Diving (without external stores), corresponding to a Mach No. of -85:

Between S.L. and 20,000 ft. - 450 (724kph)
20,000 and 25,000 ft - 430 (692kph)
25,000 and 30,000 ft. - 390 (628kph)
30,000 and 35,000 ft. - 340 (724kph)
Above ..................35,000 ft. - 310 (499kph)

It should be remembered that the Spitfire was dived at Mach 0.89.


If the troll had visited the link posted on pg 3 he would see.

Further from the link,

Dive limitations from: Bf 109 G-2, G-4, G-6 Bedienungsvorschrift, June 1943 edition

.......Dive: Adjust trim in such a way that the airplane can be held in a dive. The elevator forces and tailplane loads become great at high speeds. The tailplane adjustment must work perfectly; otherwise shifting of the tailplane is possible.
Sturzflug: Trimming so einstellen daß das Flugzeug durch Drücken im Sturzflug gehalten werden kann. Die Höhenruderkräfte und Flossenbelastungen werden bei hoher Fahrt sehr groß. Hemmung der Flossen verstellung muß einwandfrei arbeiten; sonst ist Selbst verstellung der Flosse möglich.

.......Maximum diving speed 750 km/h. Hard aileron manipulation while diving leads to failure, particularly when pulling out. Höchstzulässige Sturzfluggeschwindigkeit 750 km/h. Harte querruder betätigung im Sturz und besonders beim Abfangen führt zum Bruch.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Wow thanks lack of reading ability?

 

[Nonskimmer]

I think he was talking to Dalton.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Oh I am not offended if it was for me. I am just playing the part.