The British are selfish for leaving the French at Dunkirk

[FLYBOYJ]

You really do hate the French don't you
Prey tell how you know what the French would have done, or not done. Do you have a crystal ball by any chance

Well based on their actions, especially during WW2, their renouned arrogance, I'd rely on them as much a a screen door on a submarine...

 

[ndicki]

Well based on their actions, especially during WW2, their renouned arrogance, I'd rely on them as much a a screen door on a submarine...

I second that, and I live there, so I think I can have a valid opinion. Just when you think it's going to work, they let you down. As people and as a nation.

 

[Emac44]

You really do hate the French don't you
Prey tell how you know what the French would have done, or not done. Do you have a crystal ball by any chance

I don't hate any one but i do despise hypocracy. i despise a Nation that claims to be an ally then when there is money to be made turns around and sinks their so called allies. Another example being during the Falklands War where France sent technicians to Argentina to help that nation with its missle guidance and arming systems when Argentina was having problems with unexploded ordinance. British Sailors Marines and Soldiers paid with their lives over that. And France was suppose to be an ally in NATO treaty accords with England. But when France could see there was money to be made they sent their technicians over to help Argentina. To me that money is blood money. Because British servicemen paid the price in their own blood for France to sit smugly and say oh look we made a few dollars or francs out of that deal. Yeah some ally France is. So next time you say to me about not getting out much, I suggest to you go over to France next week go to those Commonwealth War Graves Commission sites on the 11th November at 11 am and when the Military Band bugler begins playing the Last Post and you stand their looking at some ones grave say at Albert or at Amiens. Say for example some British Tommy who joined one of the mates battlions killed on French soil for the liberty of France during WW1. Remember what that man died for and why. And why some of his other mates not far away who were also killed the French wanted to dig up their graves to build a bloody airport over their final resting place and not tell any one what they were doing. Hope you can stand listening to the Last Post and Reville after that. Because if i had your attitude it doesn't bloody matter any more then i would be ashamed of myself. but seeing i don't have an attitude similar to yours i despise a country that does more double dealing and betraying its allies when the price is right or when it suits them to do so or wants to dig up the bodies of men who died for that country's liberty and build a bloody airport over the memory of fallen soldiers. As a matter of fact since 1973 I have been getting about visiting cemetries for the Fallen Australian soldiers in such places as Thailand Malaysia Singapore Papua New Guinea and Indonesia. as well as Australia. And took active part up until 1994 prior to when my own father passed away ANZAC Day parades as I marched in my father's place as due to ill health he couldn't. In 2015 on the 25th April of that year i plan to be at the dawn service at Gallipoli in Turkey for the ceremony on that morning to treasure the memory of an other relative of mine who was killed in action in the Gallipoli campaign. Because i know i will be able to go there as i know the Turks who show honour and respect to their former foes will not dig up my relatives body to put a bloody airport over his final resting place. I also plan to go to France and Belgium to see the War Memorials to ANZAC in those countries hopefuly by that time they may be there unless the French have torn them down to build shopping malls over them or airports runways. Maybe you should go and listen to the Last Post and realize what sacrifice those men of England and the Commonwealth paid for France. Hope you can listen to it and after all that sitll think the French are honourable. You yourself need to get out more

 

[redcoat]

I don't hate any one but i do despise hypocracy. i despise a Nation that claims to be an ally then when there is money to be made turns around and sinks their so called allies.

The best modern example of this is Suez in 1956

Another example being during the Falklands War where France sent technicians to Argentina to help that nation with its missle guidance and arming systems when Argentina was having problems with unexploded ordinance. British Sailors Marines and Soldiers paid with their lives over that. And France was suppose to be an ally in NATO treaty accords with England.
But when France could see there was money to be made they sent their technicians over to help Argentina. To me that money is blood money.

Sorry but thats not true again.
France recalled the technicians as soon as the Argentines invaded the Falklands, they also backed Britains plea for sanctions against Argentina in the EEC and supported Britains efforts in the UN.

The French were quicker to back Britain than the US was.

The French are not my most favourite people by any means, but I cannot stand by while someone insults them with base lies

 

[ndicki]

Arrant boll*cks! France theoretically recalled the technicians - in reality, they did not leave until they had finished installing the weapons systems into the Etendards.

They also sold Exocets to Libya - who sold them on to Argentina, with France's full knowledge.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Here ya go....

French involvement

French president François Mitterrand gave full support to the UK in the Falklands war. As a large part of Argentina's military equipment was French-made, French support was crucial. France provided aircraft, identical to the ones it supplied to Argentina, for British pilots to train against. France provided intelligence to help sabotage the Exocet missiles it had sold to Argentina. In her memoirs, Margaret Thatcher says of Mitterrand that "I never forgot the debt we owed him for his personal support...throughout the Falklands Crisis". Sir John Nott, who was Secretary of State for Defence during the conflict later acknowledged: "In so many ways Mitterrand and the French were our greatest allies".

As France had recently sold Super Etendard aircraft and Exocet missiles to the Argentine Navy, when war broke out there was still a French team in Argentina helping to fit out the Exocets and aircraft for Argentine use. Argentina claims that the team left for France soon after the April 2 invasion, but according to Dr. James S. Corum the French team apparently continued to assist the Argentines throughout the war, in spite of the NATO embargo and official French government policy.

In 2005, a book written by President Mitterrand's psychoanalyst, Ali Magoudi, gave a different account of French co-operation, quoting him as saying: "I had a difference to settle with the Iron Lady. That Thatcher, what an impossible woman! With her four nuclear submarines in the South Atlantic, she's threatening to unleash an atomic weapon against Argentina if I don't provide her with the secret codes that will make the missiles we sold the Argentinians deaf and blind."

It is not clear how the Argentines were able to launch all of their available missiles.

Falklands War at AllExperts

 

[ndicki]

Even the ruddy French admit Mitterrand was a slippery, Macchiavellian liar.

 

[Emac44]

Seemingly redcoat you are on your own about the French. As other forum writers have their own view upon the French and their conspiracy of lies and BS that the French are so well at doing. Letting down allies seems to be French way of diplomacy and has been like that since the Grand Alliance that France had with Scotland dating back to the 14th and 15 th centuries. Seems like France up until the last 10 yrs has proved France some what despicable. Even to the degree of marketing weapons to Iraq even when a weapons embargo was inplace against Iraq by the UN. And lets not forget French companies dealing in the Food for Oil scandal. It appears a French company called Total was right up to their neck in that scandal with full knowledge of the French Govt of the day. And might i add that as France sits on the UN Security Council and condemns the UK and the USA on the war on terror and being involved in Iraq, France has her own nasty little war in the Congo Region of Africa to contend with. Whats that word again hypocrit, seems to describe France quiet well

 

[ndicki]

Total-Fina-ELF is a semi-national company (if you know about how big business works here in France, you'll understand what that means), which is incidentally France's biggest company. They were making money hand-over-fist in the food-for-oil thing, EMAC is quite correct. And, of course, they had their contacts in Saddam's government - which would not be the case post-invasion.

Bear in mind that the thing France reproached the Allies with was not (as the Germans honourably did) being inethical and starting a war without UN backing, but wanting to get hold of the oil. They still go on about that. Ethics had no place in any of the arguments they put forward against the war; the Germans, on the other hand, were straight from the start, and did not keep shifting their position in the way the French did. And that, in my opinion, is why there was no ill-will against the Germans, but there still is against the French.

Not having UN backing did not stop the French invading Yugoslavia, did it?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And speaking of them making money off of other people blood. I remember getting to Tikrit in Iraq and finding missiles dated 2002 and made in France by French companies in bunkers at an old Iraqi Airfield near Tikrit.

There was a fricken embargo on selling weapons to the Iraqis, Ofcourse the French sold them weapons though. That is how they there money, selling weapons to illegal countries. That is the real reason they did not want military action against Iraq, they did not want the truth to be told that they were illegally selling arms to Iraq.

I am in full agreement with ndicki, FBJ, and Emac44 about the French.

 

[ndicki]

Didn't know that one, Adler, though to be honest, it's only to be expected. "filthy hypocrites" does not even come close.

BTW, do you remember round 1 in the Gulf? Their defence minister, Jean-Pierre Chevenement, insisted that all decisions taken by the Frog Div be passed by Paris before implementation. That in itself is bad enough, but when you then learn that he was at the same time the Chairman of the France-Iraq friendship Association, you start to get the idea. He claimed that he did not feel there was any conflict of interest! He did step down before things got too 'serious' - understand before any fighting began - , but how much he told Saddam remains open to speculation.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

He probably was in bed with Saddam.

 

[k9kiwi]

From the Article written in Brisbane Courier Mail.

The graves of the 61 Australia soldiers lie in the path of a proposed airport at Chaulnes on the banks of the Somme in France. The Australian Prime Minister Mr. John Howard has indicated that he supports the campaign to save the last resting place of these brave Australians. Mr. Howard said that the views of the French Ambassador did not reflect those of the French people.

As many as eight Commonwealth cemeteries may be affected. Three of these eight cemeteries contain the remains of the 61 Australian Diggers. They are:-

- The Fouquescourt British Cemetery
- The Bouchoir New British Cemetery
- The World War II Meharicourt Communal Cemetery

 

[ndicki]

The views of the Ambassador probably didn't. The majority of the French population REALLY couldn't give a f**k.

 

[Emac44]

So gentlemen. At the beginning of this Thread submitted by Syscom it was stated that the English were selfish at Dunkirk. Supposively said by some obscure French General. The English were never selfish at Dunkirk or any where else. Over many years the French have proved to even their closest allies how Gallic Logic works and in dealing with allies to France. As a matter of fact i read a piece in the Brisbane Courier Mail that France was investigating secret files about their own actions in Rwanda during early 1990s. It appears France as a peacekeeping nation in Rwanda acted humanly to local Rwandians during some of the massarces in that country. But some years later accounts have come forward that French Troops had made very large glaring errors in Rwanda causing the deaths of local civilians in Rwanda. And that the French Govt had covered it up. This report was in the our local paper here in Brisbane. And thanks Kiwi for getting all the numbers on which cemetries would be effected by a runway and airport in France. Funny isn't it it was only Commonwealth War Grave sites effected how strange was that. And as for the German Govt oposing the War in Iraq. the difference is Germany opposed it on principles something i admire the German Govt doing. I might not agree with what they are opposing but the German Govt stuck by its principles and that i like. However the French Govt stuck by its business concerns and so called Principles and appears just a grubby little wretch of a place

 

[syscom3]

I will repeat...... I am not the author of this, I only posted it as I saw it another forum.

I dislike the French myself and think they have only themselves to blame for their collapse in 1940.

 

[Emac44]

I will repeat...... I am not the author of this, I only posted it as I saw it another forum.

I dislike the French myself and think they have only themselves to blame for their collapse in 1940.

I never meant to say that you was the author to that Syscom but thank you for the thread

But the one thing that really annoyed me about the French and that just at the begiining of Gulf War 2 French students and activists were going to protest about the war in Iraq. That i recognize their right to do so to protest but the location of their protest was obscene. They were going to protest at the cemetries of US servicemen killed in action during the Normandy Campaign in 1944. To some credit the French Govt had that stopped because of the International protest that would have occured if protests had gone ahead, Literally i don't care if you want to protest against the US and her Allies about the war in Iraq but the location of a protest has to be thought with care and certainly not at a War Memorial or Cemetry of men who came to free your own country that had placed their own lives at risk to save your country 60 odd years earlier that in itself to me is not only bizzare but out rightly obscene and showed no respect for the family and friends of US servicemen who would have been at the War Memorials and Cemetries on the day of that protest. To me that isn't politics but sheer gall and disrespect to the men who paid with their lives to free France from oppression. Its not something i was brought up to appreciate in democracy. by all means yes protest that is your right to do so and i support you in protesting even though i might not agree but i will never support any one protesting over the bodies or at a cemetry to servicemen and women killed in a war to the degree the French were going to do

 

[pbfoot]

I see no problem with the relocation of gravesites as long as it performed with dignity most of the graves have been relocated before after the first war they were moved to consolidate them as there were so many gravesitesites. About 10 years ago in Fort Erie Ontario which is across the Niagara River from Buffalo Ny they located the graves of about 20 or so American Troops that had been killed in the war of 1812 they were moved with no outcry but with military escort and great dignity a very moving sight

 

[syscom3]

I agree.

As long as the graves relocation is done with dignity and honor, then it should be no problem.

The earth belongs to the living, not the dead.

 

[Emac44]

I agree.

As long as the graves relocation is done with dignity and honor, then it should be no problem.

The earth belongs to the living, not the dead.

Maybe the earth belongs to the living. but the soldiers of the passed generation deserve our respect. unfortunately it isn't just a handful of graves but over 14,000 of them from 3 different War Cemetries. And it is how the French Govt went about it by not notifying the approiate authorities and govenrments about the removal of those War Cemetries to be moved elsewhere and relocated to another area. The logistics in itself would have been massive and each Grave would have to be numbered and each grave would have to be given full military honours at every stage. Do you envisage the French Government going to that infinite detail with honour and respect for not only the Grave but also the living relatives of that deceased soldier would have to be notified about the relocation of the said Graves. Hell if the French Govt kept the airport development under wraps and where the runways were going to be located the French Govt would not have done it set down by Commonwealth War Graves Commissions proceedures. And that is what upset most relatives of soldiers buried at those 3 War Cemetries. ! they were not notified 2 the Cemetries lands were ceeded to War Graves Commission and was never to be used but for the purpose they were intended for and the French Govt could only take the land back if it was in the best interest of France. 3 the Airport development site only effected British and Commonwealth Graves 4 And according to members of the French Govt the Airport development was in the wrong place as transportation hubs were miles away 5 And the general feeling of the relatives and communities and countries involved was one of disgust with the French Govt over the handling of this situation as it came on the heels of France's opposing Gulf War 2. 6 france wished to avoid international outrage over airport development as to where it was to be located and by not saying anything emboiled itself into international outrage when the media discovered the intent of the French Govt over the whole situation. If France had set out from the very start to talk to various Governments and consulted Commonwealth War Graves Comission possibley none of the outrage would have occured but the French Govt didn't. Plus this came on top of Commonwealth War Graves sites being vandalized in other areas of France by extremist opposed to Gulf War 2 so it wasn't as simple as just moving a few graves. as it totaled into literally well over thousands of graves from 3 different War Cemetries to be moved