The Greatest Attack Aircraft of All Time...

[DIOGENIS]

Does TORNADO count? It is an all weather / Day-night attack aircraft with specialised packs of anti-tank(brimstone) and anti-radar (alarm) missiles and guided bombs (paveway).Able to fly in high and low speed ,nap of the earth flying ability,two 27mm guns.

Ok, A-10 is rugged and the 30mm is deadly to any tank, but other than that, lacks most of the features described above

 

[evangilder]

You think it only carries a 30mm? Think again:

Avionics equipment includes communications, inertial navigation systems, fire control and weapons delivery systems, target penetration aids and night vision goggles. Their weapons delivery systems include head-up displays that indicate airspeed, altitude and dive angle on the windscreen, a low altitude safety and targeting enhancement system (LASTE) which provides constantly computing impact point freefall ordnance delivery; and Pave Penny laser-tracking pods under the fuselage. The aircraft also have armament control panels, and infrared and electronic countermeasures to handle surface-to-air-missile threats.

The Thunderbolt II's 30mm GAU-8/A Gatling gun can fire 3,900 rounds a minute and can defeat an array of ground targets to include tanks. Some of their other equipment includes an inertial navigation system, electronic countermeasures, target penetration aids, self-protection systems, and AGM-65 Maverick and AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles.

Thunderbolt IIs have Night Vision Imaging Systems (NVIS), compatible single-seat cockpits forward of their wings and a large bubble canopy which provides pilots all-around vision. The pilots are encircled by titanium armor that also protects parts of the flight-control system. The redundant primary structural sections allow the aircraft to enjoy better survivability during close air support than did previous aircraft. The aircraft can survive direct hits from armor-piercing and high-explosive projectiles up to 23mm. Their self-sealing fuel cells are protected by internal and external foam. Their redundant hydraulic flight-control systems are backed up by manual systems. This permits pilots to fly and land when hydraulic power is lost.

The Thunderbolt II can be serviced and operated from bases with limited facilities near battle areas. Many of the aircraft's parts are interchangeable left and right, including the engines, main landing gear and vertical stabilizers.

up to 16,000 pounds (7,200 kilograms) of mixed ordnance on eight under-wing and three under-fuselage pylon stations, including infrared countermeasure flares; electronic countermeasure chaff; jammer pods; 2.75-inch (6.99 centimeters) rockets; illumination flares and:
MK-82 (500 pound bomb)
MK-84 (2000 pound bomb)
MK77 incendiary
10 MK20 Rockeye II (4 - 6 standard load)
10 CBU-52 (4 - 6 standard load)
10 CBU-58 (4 - 6 standard load)
10 CBU-71 (4 - 6 standard load)
10 CBU-87 (4 - 6 standard load)
10 CBU-89 (4 - 6 standard load)
CBU-97
10 BL755 (4 - 6 standard load)
AGM-65 Maverick missiles
GBU-10 laser-guided bomb
GBU-12 laser-guided bomb
AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles

 

[DIOGENIS]

Dear evangilder, merry Xmas!
regarding your reply,

a. NVG systems = NVG goggles in this case ( hope i'm not mistaking) which is far more than 24h combat capability
b. lacks radar!!
c. 23mm guns ok, what about modern missile aa systems (pics)?
d.external counter measure pod, limited electronics capability-minus one weapon station,limitations in pulling max g's, less survivability in modern combat field (as in c.)
e.Tornado can also bring a heavy weaponload but more accurately,faster, and lower than A10 which by the way carries more standard weapons as you describe, such as unguided bombs.Laser guided bombs can only be released and not guided, unless an external pod or another source is used

 

[evangilder]

They are using the Gen III NVIS system which is very very capable.

What does a low level ground attack aircraft need radar for? Their mission is to slog it out with the ground forces and armor. Radar is not effective in that environment because of trees and ground clutter.

Yes, A-10s have taken hits from missiles and made it home. Please show me where a Tornado can survive a direct hit from an armor piercing, or high explosive 20mm round.

I don't think it matters if the targetting system or electronics is pod mounted or internally installed. Either way it adds weight, and being able to not have it is a big benefit.

You obviously have not seen what an A-10 can do at low level, even with a full compliment of weapons. I have seen the capability of the Tornado, and there is no comparison at low level. As a strategic attack aircraft for a quick strike on a precision target, the Tornado is good, but it cannot duke it out at low level like an A-10.

You are talking about different missions with your last statement. That is a precision strike, which the A-10 is not designed for. It is a ground attack/support mission, not precision strike. The Tornado is indeed good for precision strikes, but if I had my butt in a cockpit against an armored column, I would pick the A-10 over any other aircraft, hands down. I have seen what they do in their element first hand.

The photos below show what happened to an A-10 that took a hit from a missile. It made it home.

 

[DIOGENIS]

The A10 is obviously capable of absorbing medium cal. guns and manpads, rather than avoiding them. what about 35mm aa, crotale, Tor M1,Buk class missiles?the whole philosophy of usage is obsolete.Such missions can be accomplished by joint aircraft and attack helicopters, AH 64s, TIGRAs,M35 s etc.Suitable in low threat, good weather environments only.Such as the US forces achieved in Iraq in the recent conflicts.

The Tornado GR4 is indeed primarily a strike aircraft, that doesn't mean it can't be used for the front line attack/support role due to the highly sophisticated ordnance, for example brimstone missiles against tanks.

Don't forget that prior being used in the Gulf wars, plans for withdrawal were ready (15 yrs ago!).In fact a modernised A7 variant was proposed to replace it.If so, for the first time in aviation history an aircraft would replace it's succesor!

I accept your arguments, it's about different aspects of seeing things.I haven't seen what an A 10 can do, i'm sure it's quite impressive.

 

[mkloby]

A-10s don't need EW countermeasure equipment - there are other A/C for lugging those heavy pods... such as Prowlers and the navy's EA-18 will do...

Not to mention that A-10s can carry the Sensor Fuzed weapon - which God help any hostile armored unit that gets to meet one of them...

If you need CAS - the A-10 is a great bird...

 

[Matt308]

And let's not forget the A-10C now is precision strike capable.

Anyone know what the story is for the A-10B? Was this an upgrade program that went missing? Was this the original engine upgrade that was bypassed for avionics, structural and weapons package upgrades?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

A-10 is deffinatly the best attack aircraft. She is rugged, can carry the most ordinance and can slug it out with the enemy. Sorry but the Tornado can not take the damage, can not fly as slow as the A-10 and does not have the Close Air Support capability of the A-10.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

different roles anyway as has been said, whilst the Tornado can carry more NATO ordinance than any other combat aircraft as i understand it, she remains a strike aircraft..........

 

[HealzDevo]

Agreed, although it seems like they may be extending the A-10 gradually to take more different NATO armaments... Anyone know whether they carry wing-tip ATA missiles to distract attackers?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i don't believe she's really fast enough to suit the role of strike aircraft, leave that to the fast jets........

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Agreed, although it seems like they may be extending the A-10 gradually to take more different NATO armaments... Anyone know whether they carry wing-tip ATA missiles to distract attackers?

They have carried AIM-9s underwing. One got a kill in GW1 but I think he used his gun.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Here's the kill date...

15Feb91 511TFS/10TFW T.Sheehy A-10A/81-0964 30mm Mi-8 IrAF

BTW I also found that an AH-64 got an air-to-air kill, pilot unknown

27Feb91 229 Avn/101st AH-64A AGM-114 Helicopter IrAF

 

[FLYBOYJ]

There were 2

6Feb91 706TFS/926TFW R.Swain A-10A/77-0205 30mm Bo.105C IrAF

 

[Matt308]

Sidewinders typically carried as a pair on one under-wing mount only. A-10s do not have wing tip mounts, as their wings actually curve downward at their tips.

 

[102first_hussars]

Sidewinders typically carried as a pair on one under-wing mount only. A-10s do not have wing tip mounts, as their wings actually curve downward at their tips.

Didnt the A-10 actually shoot down a Taliban aircraft at one point, i read about this once, but i didnt think the Taliban were intelligent enough to fly a kite let alone an aircraft

 

[HealzDevo]

Sounds interesting, anyone found any more info on that shoot-down?

 

[plan_D]

The IDS Tornado is not capable of CAS work, it was never designed to do such a job. It is an interdictor, it was designed to destroy bunkers, airfields and HQs.

During its first combat operations in the Gulf War, it was sent in low to attack Iraqi airfields. Sometimes operating as low as fifty feet but suffered accordingly, as six GR.1s were lost to Iraqi AA.
When sent on medium level strikes, the Tornado was found wanting. It required the aid of BAe Buccaneers with TIALD laser designators to accompany them on any strike missions.

The GR.4 is a massive improvement over the GR.1. The aim was to improve the medium-level ability of the Tornado due to its failings in the past. It was only finished in 2003, and one just crashed recently.

It's embarassing for the GR.1 when you see what's new to the GR.4. FLIR, wide-angle HUD, NVG, GPS are some of the things that really should have been present a long time ago. But the GR.4 can carry storm-shadow cruise missiles and does contain the impressive TARDIS system.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Didnt the A-10 actually shoot down a Taliban aircraft at one point, i read about this once, but i didnt think the Taliban were intelligent enough to fly a kite let alone an aircraft

I could be wrong, but I dont think the Taliban sent any aircraft up..

 

[Matt308]

Taliban? Aircraft? I don't think its in compliance with the laws of physics to even use those two words in the same sentence.