The Greatest Fighter Pilot in WW II???

[GermansRGeniuses]

Ehm...


Baron Manfred Von Richtofen?

 

[lesofprimus]

Ahem....

WW II Fighter Ace......

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

Hmm....


I go with Marsielle.

 

[lesofprimus]

I think ull find that to be the popular answer...

I still feel Kozhedub was the best... The quality of his opposistion, being the leading Allied Ace, and the state of Russias situation, makes him stand out like a sore thumb for me...

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

Well, Franz Stigler then...

 

[lesofprimus]

Oberleutnant Franz Stigler flew just over 500 combat missions, was shot down 17 times, captured once briefly and had 28 confirmed victories to his credit, including 11 four-engine bombers, plus over 30 other "probables"...

He didnt even recieve the Knights Cross...

Kinda wierd ud throw his name into the mix...

 

[Gemhorse]

I think it all depends on your definition, 'Greatest Fighter Pilot'....Sure a Fighter Pilot's job is to down enemy aircraft and attack selected targets, but the scoreboard aspect isn't necessarily the grounds for 'Greatness'....When you look at someone like Galland, who had a reasonable score, he struck me as a great German Fighter Pilot because of his leadership....He was ostracized by High Command because, as we all know, they were all kissing-ass to the 'Higher Command', to carry-out their impossible orders, and Galland stood up to them on behalf of his pilots....Of the books I've read of Fighter Pilots, it was the WAY they lead that garners 'Greatness', and memories held by those that served under them, that is really important. - Imagine if you will, being a young pilot fresh outa training assigned to a Squadron, lead by a 'Great Fighter Pilot', and a few sorties into it, and these great ones are off clocking-up their score, leaving you to tag along....The training in those days were hurried, and a complaint in the RAF was a lack of Gunnery Practice in those days...In my mind, and reading, it was those Leaders who took the extra time to upskill Squadron newcomers, that were GREAT. - Afterall, this is what Air Combat is about, and leaving young pilots to fend for themselves or just play wingman is bordering on negligent homicide, without full, up-to-date additional on-the-job training....With Leadership comes responsibility....alot of the Top Scorers were 'loners', if you want to read about them.....

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well consider the quality of Marseille's opposition. All of his kills were scored against the Western Allies and 154 of his 158 vitocries were over fighters.

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

Les, read this: http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/pilots/stigler/stigler.htm


That's why.

 

[lesofprimus]

Marseille definatly ranks as one of the best...

What about Werner Molders??? On Oct 22nd, 1940, he downed three RAF Hurricanes to become the first Luftwaffe pilot to reach a score of 50... By the end of the BoB he had a total of 54 Kills...
He was the first pilot to beat Richthofens WW I record score of 80 kills on June 30th, 1941, when he shot down 5 SB-2 bombers to score his 78th to 82nd victories... On July 15th, he became the first pilot in aviation history to record 100 Kills.... He was immediately forbidden to fly combat missions on the orders of Göring... He personally instructed many pilots on how to achieve success, and helped develop the forward air controller concept...

He flew a total of some 330 missions during the Second World War, 100 of these on the Eastern Front, during which he shot down a total of 101 aircraft, 33 of these in the East... He also was the top scorer of the Legion Condor in Spain with 14 victories achieved in some 100 missions, and helped develop many of the modern fighter tactics still in use today...
(He was shot down quite a few times tho, removing him from my top 3 list)...

This guy kinda fits Gemhorses criteria...

But I still think either Kozhedub, Nishizawa or Marseille are the Top 3....

 

[lesofprimus]

Well, I read all 7 pages.. That was a great read thank you... He sounds like a great guy...

But it still doesnt prove anyting to me about him being the greatest of all time... He let a wounded -17 fly home... Something he would have been court martialed for, or even shot...

Pity is NOT a virtue that should be nutured or promoted to fighter pilots....

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

Still, while not THE best pilot, he was a great pilot.

Those kills were against Western allies, not the Soviets...

 

[lesofprimus]

Being able to fly just about any plane in the German Luftwaffe DEFINATLY labels him as a great pilot....

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but they didn't have a huge variety of different types..................

 

[lesofprimus]

Did u read that interview??? This guy musta flown 100 different aircraft, if not more, including alot of captured aircraft....

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

damn, i didn't read the interview..............

 

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, thanks les, that's the sorta guy I mean....another comes to mind...[can't find the book, the missus has moved them] but Johannes Steinhoff was Commander of JG77, ended-up flying Me-262's with Galland, took over from him for awhile when he was wounded, but survived the War with a reasonable score....I suppose it's important too that they did survive, 'greatest' applies more when they can live to write and talk about it, as Erich can probably testify to, with researching and writing a book on these topics....I'm trying a similar thing, [although abit late really, they're all so old now, these chaps], but with Aviation Art, creating paintings of historic events from their experiences....

 

[Lightning Guy]

I think surviving can be overplayed in a discussion of the greatest pilot. A lot of great pilots were killed in accidents, by ground-fire, or by other things that can best be attributed to chance. Marseille was killed when he was knocked unconsious while attemping to bail out of his fighter. I hardly think this freak accident degrades his status as a pilot.

 

[lesofprimus]

I agree with u there LG...

Another example is an experienced pilot flying a -262, gets shot down while trying to land that beast, by a green rook with 19 combat missions and 2 kills....

 

[Gemhorse]

Hmmm, yeah, fair comment guys...but then there were pilots like Capt. Eric Brown who was a Fleet Air Arm pilot who had a small score, but his contribution was huge in flight-testing ALL types of aircraft, of all nations...