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That is correct. A bit outside 2000' And it's annotated in the HUD.Were the Bf109 MGs and cannon firing on the same axis/plane? If I were a German pilot I would set them (if possible) such that the two hit the same point at a certain distance in front. I think I rememberBiffF15 saying the F15 guns were set such that with ballistic drop the munitions crossed the aiming point at a set distance in front.
And that's where the 332nd comes in they were good piolits I don't care what they say .
Some people still believe the myth of the 33nd
This: "I don't care what they say" simply states that you are more interested in good feels than historical context.
That's true but your MK108 was so slow and hard to aim you'd never hit the P-51
If by "myth" you mean the claim that the 332nd never lost a bomber, then, yeah, some people might believe that. They did actually lose a few. On the other hand, the claim that they were no worse but no better than most other fighter groups is also not accurate; according to official records, they were significantly better than most.Some people still believe the myth of the 332nd
I just read an article asserting that the 332nd was only average as a fighting unit, and that their commanding officers considered them below average. However, given that those commanding officers in training were all white, and many (most?) were openly prejudiced in their actions, their expressed opinion as to the competence of the trainees could be considered open to doubt.The 332nd was considered average as a fighting unit. Maintenance was somewhat below average. Politically and socially it was exceptional. As a demonstration unit it shattered the color bar in the US military that had held that "coloreds" were unfit for combat. The success of the unit had a significant bearing on President Truman's decision to abolish segregation in the US armed forces in 1948.
I doubt the Germans knew or cared who was flying escort when they intercepted American bomber streams, so, no they weren't afraid of the 332nd.
Because this thread is about the 332nd, and comparing them to the average does not require naming the others.Why are these discussions about the 332nd, never any other? The others dont even get named.
This isnt the only thread or discussion about the 332nd, but I cant remember any other groups having their abilities questioned.Because this thread is about the 332nd, and comparing them to the average does not require naming the others.
However, if anybody wanted to claim that the 332nd was good, but not the best, certainly they are welcome to name the group that is even better than the 332nd. Provided, of course, that they can provide statistics to back up the claim.
Context is everything. What was the number of escort missions flown per FG? What was the loss rate per escorted mission? The 332nd was a latecomer to the party. All other FGs in the 15th AF had been operational since it's inception. The 332nd only began escort missions in June 1944.It is easy to show that "The 332nd Fighter Group never lost a bomber" is not accurate. All one needs to do is show that one or more bombers were shot down while being escorted by them, and this has been done.
However, it is not as easy to prove whether the 332nd Fighter Group was "better than," "worse than," or "about the same as" the "average" fighter group.
On the one hand, let us accept as accurate the statement by Daniel Haulman, PhD, described as "one of the world's leading authorities on the all-African-American Tuskegee Airmen" that "The total number of Tuskegee Airmen-escorted bombers shot down by enemy fighters, by my research, was 27, while the average number lost by each of the other six fighter escort groups in the Fifteenth Air Force was 46."
On the face of it, that statement suggests that the 332nd was nearly twice as good as the average of all other fighter groups. However, a real statistics nerd would want to know how the opportunities of all groups compared. How many total missions did the 332nd fly? How many total bombers were escorted by the 332nd? What do those two numbers look like for the other fighter groups?
Without those comparative numbers, we cannot be absolutely certain that the 332nd actually had a better record, percentagewise, than the other groups.
But having said that, my inclination is to assume that the number of opportunities was similar for all the groups (i.e. the other groups did NOT, on average, escort twice as many bombers as the 332nd did.) And if I am right about that, then the statistical evidence does support the notion that the 332nd did have a better combat record than the average of the other groups, and that is indeed how I view the 332nd. Not perfect, but much better than average.
That looks like useful information. Enough for a good start. Is there more? (Details, for example?)Context is everything. What was the number of escort missions flown per FG? What was the loss rate per escorted mission? The 332nd was a latecomer to the party. All other FGs in the 15th AF had been operational since it's inception. The 332nd only began escort missions in June 1944.
Well, here are some facts about the 332nd.That looks like useful information. Enough for a good start. Is there more? (Details, for example?)