The Myth of the British "Fixing" The Corsair (2 Viewers)

[J.D.]

By his own admission (Wings of the Navy) Eric Brown didn't fly the Corsair for the first time until Feb 1944, by which time regular FAA squadron pilots had been flying it for nearly 9 months. He himself adds to, or restates, the "myth" by noting:-

".....the only problem was that a further two-and-a-half years [from the first flight of a production F4U-1] were to elapse before the US Navy was to consider it suitable for shipboard operations!"

And

"Oddly enough, the Royal Navy was not quite so fastidious as the US Navy regarding deck landing characteristics and cleared the Corsair for shipboard operation some nine months before its American counterpart."

He seems unaware of what went on in the USN in 1943, and seems to be referring to the F4U going aboard the US fleet carriers at the end of 1944 (see below). By Feb 1944, Illustrious had 2 squadrons aboard in the IO.

The F4U Corsair was an aircraft he had, in his own words, an "unenthusiastic regard" for! Plenty of criticism about the way it handled.

The USN, having sidelined the Corsair, in late 1943 for logistical reasons (except for some F4U-2 nightfighters in 1944) brought it back in Dec 1944 because of the immediate need for more fighters to deal with the kamikaze menace. What was immediately available in Hawaii were two USMC F4U-1 equipped squadrons which went aboard the Essex at the end of Dec 1944. Another 2 squadrons were allocated to each of Bennington, Wasp & Bunker Hill and Franklin between Dec 1944-Mar 1945 in time for Iwo Jima. This was only intended as a temporary measure pending arrival of new USN CAGs with enlarged fighter complements. They stayed on Essex, Wasp and Franklin until March (when the last named was kamikazied & put out of the war), Bunker Hill until May (when she was kamikazied) and Bennington until June.

USN F4U-1 equipped squadrons began turning up in TF58 from March 1945 as part of the replacement CAGs for Essex, Wasp, Franklin, Intrepid and Hancock.

Perhaps it would have been better had he said, ".....the only problem was that a further two-and-a-half years were to elapse before the US Navy was to again consider it suitable for shipboard operations."

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

True. My mistake.

As many times as you've caught me by the short hairs, I just had to rib you a little

 

[Steve Hnz]

New Zealander Don Nairn flew with the FAA during WW2 & recorded his experiences in his book, "Gold Wings & Webbed Feet" It is some years since I've read it but in it he describes a period of test flying the Corsair as part of a FAA team which worked toward fixes for some of its foibles. Two that stand out in my memory are the revised valving in the Oleos to eliminate the bounce on landing & the lengthening of the tail wheel strut to improve vision while taxying. I can't image that this was done in isolation from either the manufacturers or the USN but rather as a combined effort to improve the Corsairs characteristics in these important areas. so yes, there almost certainly was British involvement in taming the Corsair but not necessarily in isolation.

 

[GrauGeist]

New Zealander Don Nairn flew with the FAA during WW2 & recorded his experiences in his book, "Gold Wings & Webbed Feet" It is some years since I've read it but in it he describes a period of test flying the Corsair as part of a FAA team which worked toward fixes for some of its foibles. Two that stand out in my memory are the revised valving in the Oleos to eliminate the bounce on landing & the lengthening of the tail wheel strut to improve vision while taxying. I can't image that this was done in isolation from either the manufacturers or the USN but rather as a combined effort to improve the Corsairs characteristics in these important areas. so yes, there almost certainly was British involvement in taming the Corsair but not necessarily in isolation.

So how high did they extend the tailwheel strut, three/ four feet?

 

[ThomasP]

The British modified the tail wheel gear during testing (I think) so that the tail sat 6.5" higher (I think).

I am not sure how much the Americans raised it when the official mod entered production (it may not have been the same amount) - but for some reason 8" comes to mind.

 

[GrauGeist]

Vought was working on tailwheel issues since it's inception.

The British may have modified it to suit their needs, but they didn't "fix" it.

This is what it first looked like in 1940.

 

[EwenS]

Vought tested a production version of the extended tail wheel on F4U-1 BuNo 17626 (c/n 929) which would have come off the production line around July 1943. But production of the new forging was delayed so Goodyear stepped in and developed a welded steel box extension to bolt onto the standard tail wheel fork. Over 1,000 of these were produced and retrofitted to surviving aircraft from earlier production. A new forging was produced by Chrysler for fitting to all new production Corsairs models in 1944.

Goodyear seem to have introduced the modification on its production line around Dec 1943.

AFAIK Britain awaited the various Corsair mods filtering through from the US rather than developing its own. Sometimes took a while.

 

[special ed]

Vought was working on tailwheel issues since it's inception.

The British may have modified it to suit their needs, but they didn't "fix" it.

This is what it first looked like in 1940.

View attachment 794607

It would appear that the man in the cockpit had more observation problems than the tail wheel length. He can't even see over the instrument panel!

 

[WARSPITER]

It would appear that the man in the cockpit had more observation problems than the tail wheel length. He can't even see over the instrument panel!

Yeah he was a test pilot whose surname was Sunderland but his nickname was Short.

 

[tonycat77]

Can we stop and appreciate that only the US could pick and choose what frontline fighter to adopt for carrier or land use?

 

[gruad]

The dumping overboard was proscribed by the USA. With the end of the war, the Lend Lease act was terminated. So, RN had choice - pay "MSRP" for war weary airplanes, or return them. The USA did need (want) them, so told the RN to declare them as loses -i.e. push the overboard and they did.

The converse is during the war, RR waived the license fee for all the Merlin engines built in USA. But following war wanted the equivalent of $20k in royalties for every engine still in service (I think engine only cost something like $10k at the time). It is surprising that as many Mustangs escaped the crusher as have...

Has anyone tried to retrieve a Corsair from the dump or dived down there?

 

[gruad]

The A6M's controls got heavy at higher speeds, though.

As far as a source for a myth is concerned, many got started by writers looking to sell their stories to magazines.

We call these "Caidinisms", and Caidin himself was notorious for not only embellishing, but also outright bullshit.

Remember my Dad buying Pan Ballantyne book "Zero" by Caidin and saying it was unstoppable until 1944 and even the Spitfire was massacred by it!

 

[pbehn]

Vought fixed the Corsair. To do that they needed the feedback to fix it. I saw a documentary years ago that said there were over 2,000 design changes major and minor, some repeatedly changed until they got it right. They worked their butts off and produced a plane that satisfied two military organisations requirements, was formidable from both land and carrier bases and stayed in service well into the jet age. Flag waving stuff is one thing but it was Vought who made the plane.

 

[GrauGeist]

Remember my Dad buying Pan Ballantyne book "Zero" by Caidin and saying it was unstoppable until 1944 and even the Spitfire was massacred by it!

By late war, the A6M was showing it's age against newer types, however, there were a few IJN aces who did fly it successfully against Allied types, especially Nishizawa.
The irony of Nishizawa's death, was that his transport that he was riding in, was shot down by an F6F.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah he was a test pilot whose surname was Sunderland but his nickname was Short.

Get that pilot some phone books!

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Vought fixed the Corsair. To do that they needed the feedback to fix it. I saw a documentary years ago that said there were over 2,000 design changes major and minor, some repeatedly changed until they got it right. They worked their butts off and produced a plane that satisfied two military organisations requirements, was formidable from both land and carrier bases and stayed in service well into the jet age. Flag waving stuff is one thing but it was Vought who made the plane.

My other Gramps, the one who survived the war, worked in the paint-shop at their Dallas plant, painting Kingfishers and Corsairs.

 

[special ed]

The Corsair visual changes are obvious when looking at the above side view of the XF4U compared to a side view of an F4U-4. Imagine all of the internal changes.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Corsair visual changes are obvious when looking at the above side view of the XF4U compared to a side view of an F4U-4. Imagine all of the internal changes.

One of the first changes, was the "stinger" tail hook.
If you enlarge the photo of the XF4U, you can see it protruding from the tail.

This was their fix:

 

[Admiral Beez]

Vought was working on tailwheel issues since it's inception.

The British may have modified it to suit their needs, but they didn't "fix" it.

This is what it first looked like in 1940.

View attachment 794607

Well, the Brits did fix the Corsair to suit their requirements. Clipped wings, raised tail wheel, centre-section drop tank, etc.

 

[SaparotRob]

Success has a thousand fathers.