in order to kick the Commies back to their lands.
....er, exsqueeze me?
I think you'll find it was Germany that invaded Russia.
Russian doesn't actually go beyond the pre June 1941 'peace-line' until surprisingly late in 1944.
and then think of the Merlin made faster and better by packhard
....and even in the most co-operative environment with every resource possible and with the Agreement signed in Sept 1940 it still takes almost a year (Aug 1941) to make the first 2 and fuill production doesn't happen until 1942.
It's a fair point to mention the Merlin in the US and I conceed that is a fine example of things working out
(note though that it is a whole unit and not just parts)
but even when it works out I think it is fair to point out that as I originally mentioned time is still a relevant issue 1944 is completely unrealistic in the scenario for doing much good for the Hitler gang.
You need to take your hat off for the Germans, and accept the fact they would outperform the Soviets quantitatively and qualitatively had they were alone against them.
Well, ignoring you provocative quip, they did in fact have a period of fighting against them
(I'd call their huge initial successes a fair offset to the later German production numbers).
The net result is still the same.
Germany has decisively lost before 1944.....the defeat at Moscow in 1941 shows this Stalingrad copper-plates it.
The jaunt into the southern Russian area is nothing but tactical and a diversion delaying the inevitable.
The German command (as it had done with the British airforce) grossly over-estimated German abilities disastrously under-estimated Russian capabilities.
They went into the war calculating that the Russians had an active strength of 175 divisions that with reserves it could come to 250.
Halder put the reality well once the attack had begun "Until now we have identified 348 divisions", these are the words of a man who has started to understand the scale of the overwhelming swamp Germany had been crazy enough to decide to try to wade through.
Russia has the manpower Germany can never hope for and is producing tanks, anti-tank guns artilliary pieces which will remain the equal (on every practical level) of anything Germany can field and in numbers that Germany can never hope to match.
It is Germany playing catch-up with Russia's tanks not the other way around.
520 Panthers at peak says it all.
Russia made a vast 35,500 T 34's between 1940 - 1944 to Germany's total of 6,000 Panthers.
Bringing in the allies in 1944 does nothing to change the German defeat in my view, it's far too late.
Material assistance in the form of raw materials is the best you could possibly hope for by then Germany's losses of experienced personnel are far too great to just gloss over as if it doesn't really matter and the Russian forces are just too strong (and it is they that have the growing pool of experienced personnel by this stage).
....and in fact this is what happened in the air.
At the end of the war Germany was littered with thousands of their most up to date but unused brand new planes, numbers of planes was not the issue because although they didn't have the fuel to fly them they also had far too few trained crew left.
Besides in 1944 you'd never see the British switch to fighting along side Hitler's army too much death misery has been too widely dished out to the British nation and even the most anti-communist of Americans in 1944 is going to prefer to see the USA batter all 7 shades out of Japan before they'd step in to help the nazi regime
(and the final guarantee of all of this is that you can bet that if ever such a thing as this were plausible then the western public would have the truth about what was happening to the Jewish people of Europe the east put centre stage before them.
There's not a hope in hell of it ever coming to pass).
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Jenisch you seem intent on changing a aviation history forum into a alternate history forum.
Ever thread you've started on this forum has been some alternate history variation that somehow ending up with the defeat of Soviet Russia, and this is your latest.
What ifs.... can be fun but I do wonder sometimes at the intent or thinking of some who can be relied upon to always post up scenarios which invariably and inevitably end up with Hitler's regime surviving or winning.
I'm all for free speech a variety of POV but sometimes I can't help wondering where some are coming from with these imaginings.
When you suggest that anyone should take their hats off to a regime that enslaved hundreds of thousands of people, and murdered them by the thousands, all to prolong a evil system . And then to suggest that it's our fault that they didn't feed them better, is more than I can stomach.
Yes indeed, there have been a few real eye-poppers lately.
I've no doubt Stalin was a wicked monster too but the nazi evil was the worse one, you could simply be born worthy of nothing but death, no matter what you ever actually did or said, under the nazi ideology.
That was their unique evil which Stalin did not match in anything like the same way.
Oh dont get me wrong he (Stalin) his regime killed multi-millions too, but in large part due to the consequences of a policy (like collectivisation of farming) rather than actually setting up an industral murder machine as Hitler's gang did.
8)
).
