The one most over-rated plane of WWII

[Thumpalumpacus]

That map is probably not specifically accurate, and its a stretch to say that the Soviet Union was Axis, then switched. They were never Axis, they just had a brief "Non-Aggression" pact with Germany.
I used the picture to illustrate that even though the US wasn't involved, it was still a global conflict. I think it does that fairly well, with Allied nations scattered across the globe

Of course it was global. I'm just glad Mongolia lent us a couple of battleships while we were down.

Gotta recolor that section of Central Asia, though. It makes no sense to color most of the USSR red but paint a significant proportion of it green as if it's a separate political entity.

 

[Clayton Magnet]

That's what happens when you use anachronistic maps to illustrate your point.

Of course it was global. I'm just glad Mongolia lent us a couple of battleships while we were down.

Gotta recolor that section of Central Asia, though. It makes no sense to color most of the USSR red but paint a significant proportion of it green as if it's a separate political entity.

Disregard the last map. Use this one instead

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Disregard the last map. Use this one instead

View attachment 648764

No Piri Reis available?

 

[PAT303]

For the distances involved this "what if" Zero could have had both armour protection and sealed tanks, depending how far you want to go up the coast

The A6M's cruising speed was around 200mph, adding armor and SS tanks is not going to help you when Spitfires and Hurricanes are booming and zooming you all the way too the target and all the way back. Look at the facts, armored protected Luftwaffe aircraft that had much higher speed and overall performance couldn't survive over England, the A6M is not going too either.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Few Who Got Up | Defense Media Network

A history of the American pilots who were able to get in the air against the Japanese on Dec. 7, 1941, during Pearl Harbor.

www.defensemedianetwork.com

Good article on that morning.
My Uncle Jimmy's P-36 was at an auxiliary field, fueled but not armed and wasn't able to join in.
My Uncle Charles' ship was at Hickam and got destroyed, so he wasn't able to join in, either - though in frustration he unloaded his sidearm and then threw it at the attackers, for what it's worth.

 

[Clayton Magnet]

The A6M's cruising speed was around 200mph, adding armor and SS tanks is not going to help you when Spitfires and Hurricanes are booming and zooming you all the way too the target and all the way back. Look at the facts, armored protected Luftwaffe aircraft that had much higher speed and overall performance couldn't survive over England, the A6M is not going too either.

Was the A6M even operational in the summer of 1940?

 

[GrauGeist]

Was the A6M even operational in the summer of 1940?

In July and in limited numbers operating in China with the 12th Kokutai.

 

[wingnuts]

I think that japanese actually loss only a bomber by P-26

And 3 Zeros according to what I have read and PAAC history.

 

[wingnuts]

You're too quick to believe the propaganda that came out of the Philippines intended to offset the disasters at Clark, Iba, et al. None of Buzz Wagner's kills were confirmed.

I guess we will never know the full story, but it is widely accepted by people I know in the Philippine Air Force.

 

[Greg Boeser]

And 3 Zeros according to what I have read and PAAC history.

Claims.
Not verified by Japanese records.
Japanese sources do not verify Buzz Wagner's kills,either. Does not make these guys any less heroic. Overclaiming was common in all services. A plane diving out of a fight at full throttle may appear to be smoking and burning. Exchanging shots in a head on attack might give the impression of strikes on the enemy plane with bits of debris flying off. The eye often sees what it wants to see.

 

[wingnuts]

Claims.
Not verified by Japanese records.
Japanese sources do not verify Buzz Wagner's kills,either. Does not make these guys any less heroic. Overclaiming was common in all services. A plane diving out of a fight at full throttle may appear to be smoking and burning. Exchanging shots in a head on attack might give the impression of strikes on the enemy plane with bits of debris flying off. The eye often sees what it wants to see.

Maybe, but tackling a flight of A6M Zeros in a Peashooter and surviving is an achievement.

 

[GrauGeist]

Villamor and the 6th PS confronted IJN and IJA elements with amazing ferocity in their P-26s.
Even when they were down to a single operable aircraft after 6 days of intense fighting.

And for the record, many of the kills claimed by the 6th, were corroborated by witnesses on the ground.

 

[Spindash64]

I disagree with the Zeke being overrated. Late war models, perhaps, but the most important phase of the Pacific War was from 41 to 43, where it was the A6M2 vs the F4F, with shorter range operations left to A6M3 and Corsairs respectively (the former due to limited fuel compared to the M2, the latter due to unsuitability for carrier Ops initially).

The A6M2 DID have severe flaws. But what people forget is that EVERY aircraft that pushes boundaries has severe flaws. And the Zero's tradeoff was being one of the fastest and best climbing aircraft in the PTO at the time, and contrary to popular belief, Japanese pilots tended to prefer Boom and Zoom tactics, which the Zero was capable of using against Wildcats prior to the introduction of Thatch weaving. Even this wasn't entirely sufficient for the Wildcats to really turn the tides back, although it was a tremendous boon. What really hampered the Zero was the military using it, which used tactics that devalued rescue of experienced pilots and also left carriers vulnerable to air attack. If even ONE of these were accounted for, then there would have been more experienced personnel available during the Guadalcanal campaign, which, while insufficient to win the war, would have been a much bloodier affair and potentially encouraged the US to accept a conditional surrender to avoid a drawn out 2 front war





Instead, I'd consider the Bf 109 more overrated. Specifically the LATE model 109s. It was a fine plane, but people tend to not realize how badly over encumbered it was by the end of the war. That the RLM desperately wanted to replace it, but simply couldn't. So they simply added bigger engines and heavier guns to the basic 109F airframe, making a plane almost impossible for a new pilot to fly. And almost all that REMAINED by the war's end were new pilots. I'd argue that an earlier attempt to fit a 190 with a DB series engine after the greater potential of the 190 was demonstrated could have made the 1943 air campaign much more hazardous. This would still be insufficient to win the war, but it would still be better strategically than to develop more 109s in 1944.

 

[pbehn]

So they simply added bigger engines and heavier guns to the basic 109F airframe, making a plane almost impossible for a new pilot to fly.

Was there a WW2 fighter that didnt get bigger engines and heavier guns through its service history?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

contrary to popular belief, Japanese pilots tended to prefer Boom and Zoom tactics, which the Zero was capable of using against Wildcats prior to the introduction of Thatch weaving.

Even this wasn't entirely sufficient for the Wildcats to really turn the tides back, although it was a tremendous boon.

Do you have a reference for that? From the "Bloody Shambles" volumes, quite the opposite is indicated.

Quote from Saburo Sakai (Samurai)

"For the first time Lt. Commander Tadashi Nakajima encountered what was to become a famous double-team maneuver on the part of the enemy. Two Wildcats jumped on the commander's plane. He had no trouble in getting on the tail of an enemy fighter, but never had a chance to fire before the Grumman's team-mate roared at him from the side. Nakajima was raging when he got back to Rabaul; he had been forced to dive and run for safety."

The Wildcat (along with other aircraft) were able to achieve aerial superiority over Guadalcanal until other aircraft like the F6F and F4U became operational. I think the rest is history.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Lundstrom.
Wildcats were able to establish air superiority over Guadalcanal because they were defending their own airspace. The Japanese were fighting at the end of their operational range.

 

[pbehn]

Was the A6M even operational in the summer of 1940?

No but then it wasnt made in Germany anyway. Germany had engines of similar power output in 1940 and could have produced a similar design, if the bosses of the LW saw a need for such a plane. They didnt because no one saw a need for it, after all France wouldnt fall in 10 weeks in 1940, would they?

 

[SaparotRob]

Was there a WW2 fighter that didnt get bigger engines and heavier guns through its service history?

P-39?
For real, the P-39?

 

[pbehn]

P-39?

You are being seduced by the dark side of the forum, look at pictures of the Gloster Gamecock before you fall into the thread of darkness.

 

[SaparotRob]

Thank you, Oh Wise One.