Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo...

[bronzewhaler82]

well, perhaps this is a case of the american aircrew showing great heroism and bravery to make thier superiours look good???? Did the attack make any real difference to the war effort? Did it save allied lives? Did it kill and maim innocent civilians? It sounds to me as if it did very litlle but to give the americans a chance to parade and spread propagada about how great and effective they were! This is my opinion so feel free to shoot it down....call me anti american (Bronzewhaler, not a word!) or whatever.....

Oh yeah another thing...its my personal opinion that bombing civilians is a disgrace....dropping bombs on populated areas with young children living there is the invention of a sick sick person and anyone who agrees with it (i'm sure deep down you don't JJ1982) deserves to have something extrmely unpleaseant happen to them...

It is unnessasary and although i'm sure someone will argue that it is an effective means of forcing a nation into surrender...i think bombing the hell out of their industrial factories so they can no-longer produce weapons of war and bombing their army barracks and training facilities so they have no troops is just as (if not more) effective than killing millions of people who are just as normal as you or I...raids like the Doolittle raid win my approval - all the raids in the war should've been like that - no civilian casualties and damage to enemy industry

8)

 

[jj1982]

I wasnt saying that it is good to bomb civilians...although perhaps my wording could have been better in my last post...i totally agree with you bronze...I am however sticking by all my other points!

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

well, perhaps this is a case of the american aircrew showing great heroism and bravery to make thier superiours look good???? Did the attack make any real difference to the war effort? Did it save allied lives? Did it kill and maim innocent civilians? It sounds to me as if it did very litlle but to give the americans a chance to parade and spread propagada about how great and effective they were! This is my opinion so feel free to shoot it down....call me anti american (Bronzewhaler, not a word!) or whatever.....

Oh yeah another thing...its my personal opinion that bombing civilians is a disgrace....dropping bombs on populated areas with young children living there is the invention of a sick sick person and anyone who agrees with it (i'm sure deep down you don't JJ1982) deserves to have something extrmely unpleaseant happen to them...

It is unnessasary and although i'm sure someone will argue that it is an effective means of forcing a nation into surrender...i think bombing the hell out of their industrial factories so they can no-longer produce weapons of war and bombing their army barracks and training facilities so they have no troops is just as (if not more) effective than killing millions of people who are just as normal as you or I...raids like the Doolittle raid win my approval - all the raids in the war should've been like that - no civilian casualties and damage to enemy industry

8)

no civilian casualties and damage to enemy industry!

sorry mate but that isnt the truth...
as crazy as it would bedown there in tokyo of course some pilots missed their target... a hospital was hit and many died but you dont need to point out the point of the mission which other than boosting/lowering morale was hitting an industrial target. but you know, mistakes happen..

 

[jj1982]

not unusual for the americans to miss thier targets!

 

[bronzewhaler82]

I wasnt saying that it is good to bomb civilians...although perhaps my wording could have been better in my last post...i totally agree with you bronze...I am however sticking by all my other points!

And i'm putting your other points down for having an unhealthy dislike for ANYTHING American

 

[bronzewhaler82]

well, perhaps this is a case of the american aircrew showing great heroism and bravery to make thier superiours look good???? Did the attack make any real difference to the war effort? Did it save allied lives? Did it kill and maim innocent civilians? It sounds to me as if it did very litlle but to give the americans a chance to parade and spread propagada about how great and effective they were! This is my opinion so feel free to shoot it down....call me anti american (Bronzewhaler, not a word!) or whatever.....

Oh yeah another thing...its my personal opinion that bombing civilians is a disgrace....dropping bombs on populated areas with young children living there is the invention of a sick sick person and anyone who agrees with it (i'm sure deep down you don't JJ1982) deserves to have something extrmely unpleaseant happen to them...

It is unnessasary and although i'm sure someone will argue that it is an effective means of forcing a nation into surrender...i think bombing the hell out of their industrial factories so they can no-longer produce weapons of war and bombing their army barracks and training facilities so they have no troops is just as (if not more) effective than killing millions of people who are just as normal as you or I...raids like the Doolittle raid win my approval - all the raids in the war should've been like that - no civilian casualties and damage to enemy industry

8)

no civilian casualties and damage to enemy industry!

sorry mate but that isnt the truth...
as crazy as it would bedown there in tokyo of course some pilots missed their target... a hospital was hit and many died but you dont need to point out the point of the mission which other than boosting/lowering morale was hitting an industrial target. but you know, mistakes happen..

I was talking about DELIBERATE civilian bombing...besides where did you hear that they hit a hospital? why the hell would a hospital be anywhere near a huge munitions industrial area?

 

[jj1982]

ha.....

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

well target recognition wasnt that easy and workers need hospitals too mate as for my source, i dont know if it was internet or a book... if its a book ill check if its not.....

Reichsmarschall Batista

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

ok, here goes!

The raid was a success, but hardly flawless. Most of the planes flew off course and missed their targets. Doolittle's payload was intended for an armory, but it destroyed the city's largest hospital instead.

the rest of the paragraph is irrelevant. but it must be noted that there was less room for correcting errors since they took off 150 miles before the original takeoff location. (this happened because the Enterprise , the escort/companion carrier, detected enemy ships about and fearing losing the element of surprise, launched the bombers 650mi away from tokyo, again 150mi farther than expected) but as i stated in my long post bronze, i know that the mission was not to bomb civilians! please reread the end of the post!

Reichsmarschall Batista

 

[bronzewhaler82]

I know mistakes happen during heated bombing runs - its just of personal interest to me - so i wondered where you got the info from thats all

 

[jj1982]

Correct me if i am wrong...for i usually am, but did we not bomb catherderal cities in Germany in retaliation to the mess they made of london????

 

[bronzewhaler82]

Of course we did and we killed alot of German civilians - the Germans did start the mass-bombing first though but that doesn't make it right - there really was no need for it but as we all know..the Germans weren't exactly terribly PC were they...?

 

[jj1982]

so the point i am trying to make is that although civillian bombing is wrong...everyone did it intentionally because of the demoralising effect it had on the countryon the recieving end....except of course britian who just seemend to take it inher stride....

 

[bronzewhaler82]

We found it extremly demoralising...you wouldn't be human if you didn't but we only did it out of retaliation...not cos we enjoyed doing it...the Germans however..

 

[jj1982]

well, as neither of us were about at the time i can only go by what i have heard and seen....to me the pictures of families smiling and joking about it says a lot....i'm not saying that they werent upset...of ourse they were, what i am saying is that the British held thier upper lip stiff and refused to let a small matter like the blitz affect the way that they felt....they showed tremendous courage and great resiliance whereas other countries may have broken down and given in (spain recently is a good example!)

 

[bronzewhaler82]

well, as neither of us were about at the time i can only go by what i have heard and seen....to me the pictures of families smiling and joking about it says a lot....i'm not saying that they werent upset...of ourse they were, what i am saying is that the British held thier upper lip stiff and refused to let a small matter like the blitz affect the way that they felt....they showed tremendous courage and great resiliance whereas other countries may have broken down and given in (spain recently is a good example!)

One word. Propaganda

During the Battle of Britain the newspapers were full of pictures of airmen lazing about on airfields smoking cigarettes with huge grins on their faces and 'tally ho' and all this other stuff when in fact they were all terrified and didn't often smile and joke and who could blame them? - it was propaganda - you fill newspapers with stories of our frightened airforce and civilians of london living in fear and you'll have mass hysteria and bad feelings and low moral all round. My grandparents lived in Fulham during the blitz and they've told me what it was like.

 

[jj1982]

Yes admittdly so....Of course at the time those civillians would be portrayed as carefree etc....but after 60 years......

 

[bronzewhaler82]

After 60 years what? we still have our pride y'know and as you say...if nothing but propaganda exsits whos to say modern historians don't beleive it...you know what they say..its the victors that write the history - i'm sure if that evil b****** Hitler had won records would be different

 

[jj1982]

well, of course records would be different....for one he would have won and we would have lost!

 

[jj1982]

now thats a pretty important fact!