Top Ten Twin-Engine Fighters of World War II

[don4331]

would you kindly have a link, as to where my favorite (optically) 2 engine Luftwaffe aircraft receives such "devastating perceptions"

regards
Jagdflieger

The chief test pilot commented that the Me 210 had "all the least desirable attributes an aeroplane could possess."
It cost Willi Messerschmitt his chair at the university.
Me 410 was a useful plane, but still wouldn't put it in top 10.

Me 110 night fighters shot down more enemy planes than all the other night fighters combined. (OK, it had more time/opportunities) There were several day fighter aces against French and in North Africa. Yes, it's development didn't keep up with single engined fighters but it was still flying on V-E eve.

I'd put Me 110 right behind P-38, but only because Lightning successfully fought in more theaters.

Do 335 is napkinwaffe. Yes, prototypes flew in '45, but there aren't any combat successes. F7F Tigercat, F-82 Twin Mustang and DH Hornet fall in same category - prototypes flying but not in service.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hello aircraft enthusiasts,

well being new at a forum it might not be advisable to get straight into a controversial thread
However I am a bit surprised to see a Bf 110 ranking as No. 5 since it was more or less outclassed by "puristic" single engine fighters from the very beginning.
As such being relegated to night-fighter tasks were due to a lack of a far more suitable Luftwaffe aircraft it "automatically" performed reasonably well.
The same thoughts would apply towards a Mosquito - a great raider and night-fighter, but fighter aircraft as such?

Well just my thoughts- that all

Regards to all
Jagdflieger

Hiyas and welcome, first.

I don't know that rating twin fighters against concurrent single-engined fighters is the point, but rather, to rate the twin-fighters against each other. Outside of perhaps the P-38 I don't know of any twin produced in numbers that could hold its own against an equally-modern single-engined fighter.

 

[don4331]

I don't know that rating twin fighters against concurrent single-engined fighters is the point, but rather, to rate the twin-fighters against each other. Outside of perhaps the P-38 I don't know of any twin produced in numbers that could hold its own against an equally-modern single-engined fighter.

During Battle of France, Bf 110s produced several aces versus the best of the French and RAF Spitfires/Hurricanes. North Africa Jan. '41, Bf.110s 33 versus Warhawks & Hurricanes 23. Without ground control, single engined fighters weren't significantly superior yet. But Bf 110 was losing the development race - which is what Me 210 was supposed to pull back ala Me 109F did versus Spitfire with 100 octane.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

During Battle of France, Bf 110s produced several aces versus the best of the French and RAF Spitfires/Hurricanes. North Africa Jan. '41, Bf.110s 33 versus Warhawks & Hurricanes 23. Without ground control, single engined fighters weren't significantly superior yet. But Bf 110 was losing the development race - which is what Me 210 was supposed to pull back ala Me 109F did versus Spitfire with 100 octane.

I didn't know that. I knew that when conditions were right, they could be pretty hard-hitting -- they'd be great in a bounce; and I knew they were fast for any fighter of the era. Thanks for the info.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Hiyas and welcome, first.

I don't know that rating twin fighters against concurrent single-engined fighters is the point, but rather, to rate the twin-fighters against each other. Outside of perhaps the P-38 I don't know of any twin produced in numbers that could hold its own against an equally-modern single-engined fighter.

Hi Thumpalumpacus,

thanks for the welcome.

The comparison/evaluation between double and single engine automatically arises IMHO due to the term "Fighter" As such I fully agree with you that in regards to fighter
the only 2 engine plane worth mentioning is the P-38, even though AFAIK it is not widely considered to have been a good fighter aircraft. But as always it usually depends
rather on the pilots skills then just the aircraft.
The Bf 110 and e.g. He 219 were termed Jaeger (Hunter) with a crew of 2-3. in their night-role - and their primary mission was to shoot down bombers - not engaging fighters
The Bf 110 in Russia and elsewhere was usually escorted by single engine fighters - whilst executing their ground attack missions - which doesn't out-rule the event of a Bf 110
engaging an adversary fighter aircraft, voluntarily (sneaking up if a good chance was given) but intentionally getting into a dog-fight with a single engine fighter plane?

The Bf 110 was as known, Goering's 'fighter" brainchild and it never performed satisfactorily in that category. No aircraft historian will deny it's usefulness in all its overall assigned
roles, especially in the first 10 month of the war, taking into account the kind of aircraft's flown in majority by the enemy. Most of the Western-Allies fighters and aircrafts
were destroyed on the ground - which was the primary intention of the Blitzkrieg strategy - naturally also executed on behalf of the Luftwaffe.

Due to it's restricted-fighter capabilities the 3./Erprobungsgruppe 210 was setup in Jun/July 1940 - prime objective was to find a suitable role for the aircraft - later this unit was
to become SKG 210.

Especially in the beginning month of the war the Luftwaffe profited greatly from it's Legion Condor experience, and many Bf 110 were flown by these chaps. Luftwaffe pilots
referred to the Bf 110 as the "Gefriertruhe" (refrigerator box) Truhe (box) in regards to it's flight characteristics.

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[Jagdflieger]

Yes, the Me210 was really that bad.

It was unstable in level flight and had a tendency to enter unrecoverable stalls if climbing too sharply or banking too hard.

Many attempts were made to correct the problem, including a new tail structure and lengthening the fuselage.

With several modifications, the Me210C was suitable enough and the Hungarian Air Force had good success with it.

The Me410 was a far superior aircraft as a result of all the changes (and time) needed to make the Me210 work well enough for Luftwaffe service.

Hi there Graugeist,

I am aware of the initial design and other problems in regards to the Me 210. those were extreme even in regards to a new aircraft design.
Yes one can therefore condemn it due to these issues, but as you pointed out correctly - once the bugs were out, it performed rather well, e.g. in the Hungarian Air-force

As such in its finalized version, independent of the resulting Me 410, I would conclude that it wasn't a bad aircraft. Pitting both Me 210 and Me 410 during daylight
operations against US bomber Pulks would be another topic.

Regards
Jagdflieger
.

 

[Snautzer01]

Luftwaffe pilots
referred to the Bf 110 as the "Gefriertruhe" (refrigerator box) Truhe (box) in regards to it's flight characteristics

Would you have a source for that?

 

[Jagdflieger]

Would you have a source for that?

Not really to be honest, besides statements from my father and a couple of his WW2 surviving Luftwaffe pilot mates.
However I would be surprised to hear that this wouldn't be mentioned in books that are in reference or dedicated to the Bf 110 or it's more famous pilots.

Okay I just found this: Messerschmitt Bf 110

Most pilots of the Bf 110E considered the aircraft slow and unresponsive, one former Bf 110 pilot commenting the E was "rigged and a total dog."

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[Snautzer01]

but no source given in that article. Perhaps John Vasco can tell us

 

[Peter Gunn]

Do 335 not worth a mention to be honest, like D don4331 said, it shares pride of place i.e. not combat with F7F, P-82 and DH Hornet.

While it looks cool and seems to have some potential, I don't think too many Mustang pilots would be all that intimidated by it.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Do 335 not worth a mention to be honest, like D don4331 said, it shares pride of place i.e. not combat with F7F, P-82 and DH Hornet.

While it looks cool and seems to have some potential, I don't think too many Mustang pilots would be all that intimidated by it.

yes, you and don4331 are certainly correct. I did overlook that the Do 335 wasn't put into action.

As a side note - The Do 335 wasn't intended as a fighter - initially around 41/42 it was designated single seat high-speed bomber/intruder. P.231
Then in 44 was designated "Schwerer Jaeger" more or less the same category as the Bf 110/Me210/Me410 - Hitler had even ordered to cancel the He 219 in favor of the
Do 335. The ones to be intimidated were to be Bombers.
And I am quite convinced that Bomber-crews would have had all reasons to fear it, especially taking the availability of experienced Luftwaffe pilots into account.

Quote:
French ace Pierre Clostermann claimed the first Allied combat encounter with a Pfeil in April 1945. In his book The Big Show (pages 273-274) he describes leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests over northern Germany, when he intercepted a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade.
Despite the Tempest's considerable low altitude speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position.

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Bf 110 and e.g. He 219 were termed Jaeger (Hunter) with a crew of 2-3. in their night-role - and their primary mission was to shoot down bombers - not engaging fighters

Right, which means comparing them to S-E fighters is comparing them to planes they shouldn't be fighting.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Right, which means comparing them to S-E fighters is comparing them to planes they shouldn't be fighting.

Right - but I did not design the headline of this "Listing"
The more appropriate wording might be "The best 10 twin engine, Multi-role aircraft" - then bye. bye P-38

Otherwise who came up with the idea to place a Ju 88 into that listing?

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Right - but I did not design the headline of this "Listing"
The more appropriate wording might be "The best 10 twin engine, Multi-role aircraft" - then bye. bye P-38

Regards
Jagdflieger

Mosquito would take that prize, no doubt.

 

[SaparotRob]

Right - but I did not design the headline of this "Listing"
The more appropriate wording might be "The best 10 twin engine, Multi-role aircraft" - then bye. bye P-38

Otherwise who came up with the idea to place a Ju 88 into that listing?

Regards
Jagdflieger

Goering?

 

[Jagdflieger]

Goering?

Oh my God - now I even feel compelled to defend that useless fellow

The Germans or Luftwaffe never referred to the Bf 110 as a Jagdflugzeug/fighter. Fat boys designation in accordance with tough Nazi language was "Kampfzerstörer" (battle destroyer)
and "Zerstörerwaffe" (destroyer weapon) then in 1938 more humanized by Udet into Zerstörer (destroyer) and from 1941 onwards as "Zerstörer Jabo" (destroyer fighterbomber)
Bf 110 comprising units were not organized or designated as "Jagdgeschwader"(fighter squadrons) but as special as they were into "Schwerer Jaeger Verband" (heavy fighter unit) and last not least from 1939 onward as "Zerstörer Geschwader" ZG (destroyer wing)

I assume its only the Anglo-American literature/language that refers or translates it to fighter aircraft.

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[SaparotRob]

Uh oh. Better ask someone who knows something.

 

[Shortround6]

I assume its only the Anglo-American literature/language that referred or refers to it as fighter aircraft.

Well. "Anglo-American literature/language" refers to this as a fighter

and this.

At least they hung a P-70 designation on it

The Anglo-Americans get a little sloppy with language.

They seem to translate this from French to "fighter" in English.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Mosquito would take that prize, no doubt.

Hm.... or the aircraft that replaced it? my all time favorite jet No. 2 out of 10 British military jet aircraft's, the Meteor F.3s with the Derwent I engines

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[Jagdflieger]

Well. "Anglo-American literature/language" refers to this as a fighter
View attachment 662428
and this.
View attachment 662429
At least they hung a P-70 designation on it

The Anglo-Americans get a little sloppy with language.

They seem to translate this from French to "fighter" in English.
View attachment 662430

Hi Shortround6

what kind of "high speed interceptor" is the last one?

Regards
Jagdflieger