TRAITOR!

[pbehn]

We have a similar issue here

RAF pilots paid £250,000 to train Chinese to shoot Western aircraft

Former British fighter pilots are training the Chinese to shoot down Western aircraft, officials warned last night. Up to 30 pilots have recently moved to China after securing £250,000-a-year contracts.

www.dailymail.co.uk

UK to change law to stop RAF pilots training Chinese military, says minister

Chinese recruitment ‘to understand the capabilities of our air force’ of concern, says James Heappey

www.theguardian.com

I dont know what to think about it TBH. My wifes former university was awash with Chinese students as are most British universities some are involved in research, so we just hand them information for a university fee. The head of the Students Union when she left used to supervise his Russian father's 100 million London Property portfolio on weekendsto have that size of portfolio in London you must be connected to the regime . Political parties have accepted cash from the Chinese and Russians and employed their spies while industry has transferred jobs and technology there to make more money, I worked in Russia and China on such deals. At present there is a "hoo ha" about politicians going to brothels and using prostitutes abroad, including China while on official business, that leaves them wide open to blackmail, and who knows how many have been, and what for?

MPs and peers 'asked for brothel' and 'hired sex worker' on trips

The claims have thrown fresh scrutiny over the activities of All Party Parliamentary Groups, of which many are dedicated to single causes or individual countries.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I guess the pilots think everyone else is selling out their country why shouldnt I, but its all modern politics.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Setting aside patriotism for the moment, laws are laws. Pilots doing this when it is illegal make their own beds, to sleep in them at leisure. So far as I'm concerned they can find sympathy in the dictionary ... it's between "shit" and "syphilis".

 

[fannum]

All Political Games:

• Pollard being paid by Israelis for info administrations were not eager to share. Gets modest sentence, released early, and lives like a hero.
• Bergdahl provides tactical info to enemy, and gets traded for real threats, then escapes charges as he was "confused." (Naive Greiner also traded for a real threat, and now can trash US at home again.)
• Many firms and specialists supported Nazis while Germany was being sanctioned/embargoed in 30s-'42, the designers of Ju88 were Americans, also US chemists and engine designers consulted, some of German/Italian heritage returned to ancestral country for conflict, then returned to US quietly post war with no repercussions.
• Despite the known collaboration of German/Italian immigrants pre war, none were subjected to more than questioning, while just racial suspicion put virtually all JapaneseAmericans into isolation camps.
• Look at the number of political figures recently who had Chinese agents on staff or associated or had business dealings with no investigations.

Just a few items of many contradictions to be considered.

 

[Zipper730]

Prior to WWII a RAF pilot went to Japan and taught their pilots how to T/O and Land on carriers.

1. Was the RAF's actions in violation of any law: This guy's actions actually were
2. Was the RAF pilot involved punished for what he did?

He might not have been bright on the radar but could have faced the same penalties. He knew the law, was told to knock it off bit continued to violate ITAR laws which I know he was debriefed about when he left the Marines.

So even despite knowing the law upon leaving the USMC, he did it anyway; then was told AGAIN to stop assisting China and continued to do so anyway?

unless he officially denounced his US citizenship (and even that has limitations) he's still subject to US laws

I think somebody said he had renounced his citizenship, but it would still be in violation of ITAR laws?

 

[BlackSheep]

Scum.

 

[BlackSheep]

All Political Games:

• Pollard being paid by Israelis for info administrations were not eager to share. Gets modest sentence, released early, and lives like a hero.
• Bergdahl provides tactical info to enemy, and gets traded for real threats, then escapes charges as he was "confused." (Naive Greiner also traded for a real threat, and now can trash US at home again.)
• Many firms and specialists supported Nazis while Germany was being sanctioned/embargoed in 30s-'42, the designers of Ju88 were Americans, also US chemists and engine designers consulted, some of German/Italian heritage returned to ancestral country for conflict, then returned to US quietly post war with no repercussions.
• Despite the known collaboration of German/Italian immigrants pre war, none were subjected to more than questioning, while just racial suspicion put virtually all JapaneseAmericans into isolation camps.
• Look at the number of political figures recently who had Chinese agents on staff or associated or had business dealings with no investigations.

Just a few items of many contradictions to be considered.

Whether or not I agree with the actions taken against the Japanese, I think you need to research the subject and I mean deeper than the Haradas/Airman Nishikaichi incident. For instance, throughout the war, there are accounts of Hawaiians of Japanese descent running villages in the outback that doubled as Japanese submarine resupply/R&R bases and brothels to American patrols where the women did their best to ply information from the men. I invite you to research the subject further.

 

[Snautzer01]

the designers of Ju88 were Americans

No the were not.

 

[Zipper730]

Snautzer01

Well there were two that worked for Fokker Atlantic if I recall, one was an American citizen if I recall

 

[Snautzer01]

What has Fokker to do with Junkers i fail to see.

 

[pbehn]

What has Fokker to do with Junkers i fail to see.

Well, they are Dutch and that sounds a bit like Deutsch.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

They're furriners, dammit.

 

[Glider]

Thinking about this, I don't think the major problem was teaching them how to take off and land on a carrier. I am sure that the Chinese would have worked it our fairly quickly. I did see a video somewhere of the Chinese operating their aircraft on the carrier. I remember being struck at how western or in particular American it looked. When I saw videos of the Russians operated their carrier aircraft they were hopeless. Yet the Chinese were very slick in the way they handled the aircraft on landing and taking off. The way they were marshalled on the deck and struck down, was pretty impressive.
Its my guess (admittedly) that it was in this area where his extensive knowledge of carrier based operations would be most valuable, not in the actual flying.

 

[Snautzer01]

Thinking about this, I don't think the major problem was teaching them how to take off and land on a carrier. I am sure that the Chinese would have worked it our fairly quickly. I did see a video somewhere of the Chinese operating their aircraft on the carrier. I remember being struck at how western or in particular American it looked. When I saw videos of the Russians operated their carrier aircraft they were hopeless. Yet the Chinese were very slick in the way they handled the aircraft on landing and taking off. The way they were marshalled on the deck and struck down, was pretty impressive.
Its my guess (admittedly) that it was in this area where his extensive knowledge of carrier based operations would be most valuable, not in the actual flying.

You can mimic a gunfighter. Standing toe to toe for real is a complete different game. Look how well the russian tanks did. Werent we scared and are we now.
The Chinese are not stupid. A breadcrum will not be a panacee to close the worlds apart from having a floaty to the Nimitz and her jolly friends.
They know, as should we.
Dont over act. For all i know it could be a ploy to know how the opponent will react in whatever situation.
Now wouldn't that be something.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Its my guess (admittedly) that it was in this area where his extensive knowledge of carrier based operations would be most valuable, not in the actual flying.

I think you have a situation where both eventually go together.

 

[GrauGeist]

Regarding the Ju88, the Americans did help Zindel with it's design:
Gassner and Evers - both of whom were former engineers at Fokker U.S.

However, this was in the mid-30's, so there wasn't any conflict of interest.

Udet bought a Curtiss Goshawk for the new Luftwaffe and Germany purchased P&W engines - both in the 30's.

Japan purchased several American aircraft types, including licensing from Douglas for the DC-2/3. They Purchased two Northrop Gamma 2Es (IJN BXN) and one Gamma 5A (IJN BXN1) and one Gamma 5D (IJA BXN2) for evaluation.
They also purchased twenty Seversky 2PA-B3s (IJN A8V1).

All of the above were prior to hostilities and none were done in violation of established laws at the time, though Seversky's sale landed him in hot water.

 

[pbehn]

Regarding the Ju88, the Americans did help Zindel with it's design:
Gassner and Evers - both of whom were former engineers at Fokker U.S.

However, this was in the mid-30's, so there wasn't any conflict of interest.

Udet bought a Curtiss Goshawk for the new Luftwaffe and Germany purchased P&W engines - both in the 30's.

Japan purchased several American aircraft types, including licensing from Douglas for the DC-2/3. They Purchased two Northrop Gamma 2Es (IJN BXN) and one Gamma 5A (IJN BXN1) and one Gamma 5D (IJA BXN2) for evaluation.
They also purchased twenty Seversky 2PA-B3s (IJN A8V1).

All of the above were prior to hostilities and none were done in violation of established laws at the time, though Seversky's sale landed him in hot water.

Rolls Royce traded Kestrel engines that were used in the Bf 109 for planes and Messerschmitt paid license fees for the Bf 109 slats until war was declared. If things then were anything like today, until hostilities start people and companies behave as if nothing is happening. RR had had German machine tool specialists installing tools in one of their factories on the day war was declared while Winkle Brown was on a student exchange visit in South Germany.

 

[special ed]

What WAS disturbing, was the gift of 25 RR Nenes to USSR in 1948.

 

[pbehn]

What WAS disturbing, was the gift of 25 RR Nenes to USSR in 1948.

Complete madness, never properly explained to this day

 

[N4521U]

And then This....

 

[Wildcat]

Ward Carroll's take