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http://www.internet-esq.com/ussaugusta/torch/`loomaluftwaffe said:operation torch? dont know that sry
Jabberwocky said:In the whole course of WW2, there was just one nation which Germany declared war on: the USA. Strangely enough, of all the independent warring nations, it was the only one that Germany didn't attempt to invade.
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Sorry Hitler was still the aggressor, no way to deny it.
Yep and he had been since 1936 and the Rhineland which where followed by Austria and the Sudentenland in 1938 and the rest of Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1939 by which point Britain and France had enough of Hitler's dealings and the war started as a result of Hitler's aggressions not of Britain and France (theirs was a reactionary move not and aggressive move). Hitler only ever declared war on one country (the US) but almost all the countries he was at war with were as a result of his aggressive moves.Hunter368 said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Sorry Hitler was still the aggressor, no way to deny it.
I agree.
Gnomey said:Yep and he had been since 1936 and the Rhineland which where followed by Austria and the Sudentenland in 1938 and the rest of Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1939 by which point Britain and France had enough of Hitler's dealings and the war started as a result of Hitler's aggressions not of Britain and France (theirs was a reactionary move not and aggressive move). Hitler only ever declared war on one country (the US) but almost all the countries he was at war with were as a result of his aggressive moves.Hunter368 said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Sorry Hitler was still the aggressor, no way to deny it.
I agree.
Udet said:Good evening gentlemen:
It´d appear some people here fret about the idea of anyone coming along with the view Hitler was not an aggressor.
The purpose of the present thread is quite a different one I believe.
Politicians are all dirty people. Politics is a not a matter of chivalry and honor. To believe such a thing would be flat wishful -naive- thinking.
Think of this, if any of the members of this forum would like the idea of politics as a career, then he should prepare his mind to become dirty and filthy. At least dirtier and filthier than the guys in other political parties -your enemies, your adversaries-. Leave your chivalry codes at home.
Mr. Adler,I am convinced no one is white-washing anything nor anyone here.
The purpose here could in fact be one more illustrative, and I believe there will be some who will agree on this:
(1) Germany was not the sole aggressor in the continent from the offset.
(2) Germany, although conscious war in the west could happen, did not intend to wage war against England much less invade it.
(3) The western powers made a selective -and very bizarre- choice of enemies in September 1939.
(4) Unlike the official history that rolled across the earth after the war -still being taught in classrooms in the same fashion today-, the events in Europe in 1939 were the consequences of world powers trying to preserve and/or expand their interests. Period here.
(5) Hitler was not necessarily worse than Churchill.
Churchill proved he could in fact surpass Hitler, and contest smiley Dzugashvili for the Gold Medal in the "filthy politician" department.
I bring the Mers-el-Kebir incident forward to the table in order to substantiate this claim. I´ve read kilometers of British attempts to defend what can not be defended. They simply do not make a case.
And Mers-el-Kebir can certainly be small when compared with other incidents happily approved by Mr. Churchill. The word "small" here might be tricky; Mers-el-Kebir was "small" in terms of lost lives when compared with other British felonies carried out during the war; the incident against the french fleet in Algeria is by no means a small one: its significance is huge as to the actual meaning of moral leadership for the British -or the lack thereof-.
In fact, if we were to make a case just like the one experienced by the German créme de la créme at Nurenberg, then Churchill and Eisenhower go straight to death by hanging.
So the British deemed the promises made to the Poles paramount?
8)
Sure!
KraziKanuK said:Just have to give the head a good shake in disbelief with some of Udet's comments.
re 4) What was Germany trying to do?
re 5) Did Churchill try to eliminate completely the peoples of a certain religion, never mind the others he considered racially inferior? Hitler sure did.
One has to really wunder about someone who defends Hitler.
Lets see your comments Udet on what the British should have done with regards to Mers-el-Kebir.
evangilder said:If Hitler had won, some of us would not be alive today. I don't care how you want to sugar coat it, Hitler was pure evil. Sure there are politicians that do bad things, but Hitler had eugenics for his "master race" and invaded other lands to create his "liebensraum". Say what you want about Churchill, but none of my list were done by Churchill. There are no benevolent leaders.
I will say this, I am not so sure that Udet is "defending Hitler", more just looking at things in the big picture without bias
Politicians are all dirty people. Politics is a not a matter of chivalry and honor. To believe such a thing would be flat wishful -naive- thinking.
(1) Germany was not the sole aggressor in the continent from the offset.
(2) Germany, although conscious war in the west could happen, did not intend to wage war against England much less invade it.
(3) The western powers made a selective -and very bizarre- choice of enemies in September 1939.
(4) Unlike the official history that rolled across the earth after the war -still being taught in classrooms in the same fashion today-, the events in Europe in 1939 were the consequences of world powers trying to preserve and/or expand their interests. Period here.
(5) Hitler was not necessarily worse than Churchill.
Churchill proved he could in fact surpass Hitler, and contest smiley Dzugashvili for the Gold Medal in the "filthy politician" department.
I bring the Mers-el-Kebir incident forward to the table in order to substantiate this claim.
In fact, if we were to make a case just like the one experienced by the German créme de la créme at Nurenberg, then Churchill and Eisenhower go straight to death by hanging.
So the British deemed the promises made to the Poles paramount?