Mike Williams
Senior Airman
- 572
- Oct 19, 2006
Wonderful story and connection Biff!
US Spitfires
- Thread starter Jan Clausen
- Start date
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Wonderful story and connection Biff!
Mike Williams
Senior Airman
- 572
- Oct 19, 2006
I was fortunate to meet Colonel Jerry Collinsworth, who flew Spitfires with the 307th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, at Dayton in the early '90s. He liked Spitfires, especially IXs, didn't like P-39s and felt sorry for the poor guys who had to fly 39s in North Africa. They were sitting ducks. He wrote for Wings of War: "I joined the 31st Fighter Group in early 1942 and checked out in the lousiest fighter plane the United States ever built: the P-39 Aircobra." and stated during an interview "From my viewpoint, a P-39 was not a bad airplane. It just a lousy airplane."
More thoughts from Collinsworth taken from Shores' A History of the Mediterranean Air War, Volume Three: "I much preferred the Spitfire over any aircraft the Allies had in Tunisia. Why? Because with the Spit V we could outmanoeuvre the Bf 109, Fw 190 and Macchi 202. Those were the main types we encountered with the Spit's short range. With the Spit IX we could outmanoeuvre, out-climb and generally outrun the enemy straight and level at high altitude. The P-39 was a miserable fighter for Tunisia; we used to have to escort them because the Bf and FW outperformed them in every conceivable way; dive, climb, manoeuvre, speed - you name it! The Kittyhawk was very little better. The P-38 was good, although a friend of mine who flew them said a Bf 109 out-turned him in his P-38. The only way he got away was through superior speed."
Regarding Spit IXs Colonel Collinsworth wrote: "I got another Fw 190 on April 5, 1943, as I escorted some A-20s near La Fauconnerie. This was also the last time I flew a Spitfire Mk V and the last time I was scared. The Spit Mk IX changed our whole outlook on life. This new and improved Spitfire made us turn from a defensive mind to an offensive one. We could still outturn the 190s and in some cases outclimb and outrun them as well. Most of the time, though, it was the Germans who were on the run! I went from scared looks to beating and thumping my chest and, in one case, thumbing my nose at the Luftwaffe." (I've seen him tell this story and act it out
)
While flying a Spitfire IX Collinsworth claimed Fw 190s destroyed on May 6, 1943 near Tunis, June 11, 1943 over Pantelleria and July 12, 1943 over Sicily ending up with 6 claimed shot down while flying Spitfires. Collinsworth's victim on June 11 was apparently an Fw 190 A-5 of SchG 2. Shores gives Collinsworth credit as follows for his July 12 claim: Stab/SKG 10 Fw 190A-5 WNr 0844 lost in combat S San Pietro a/f; Fw Hermann Heiss KiA.
Lt. Jerry Collinsworth in his Spitfire, Biggin Hill, England, August 1942
More thoughts from Collinsworth taken from Shores' A History of the Mediterranean Air War, Volume Three: "I much preferred the Spitfire over any aircraft the Allies had in Tunisia. Why? Because with the Spit V we could outmanoeuvre the Bf 109, Fw 190 and Macchi 202. Those were the main types we encountered with the Spit's short range. With the Spit IX we could outmanoeuvre, out-climb and generally outrun the enemy straight and level at high altitude. The P-39 was a miserable fighter for Tunisia; we used to have to escort them because the Bf and FW outperformed them in every conceivable way; dive, climb, manoeuvre, speed - you name it! The Kittyhawk was very little better. The P-38 was good, although a friend of mine who flew them said a Bf 109 out-turned him in his P-38. The only way he got away was through superior speed."
Regarding Spit IXs Colonel Collinsworth wrote: "I got another Fw 190 on April 5, 1943, as I escorted some A-20s near La Fauconnerie. This was also the last time I flew a Spitfire Mk V and the last time I was scared. The Spit Mk IX changed our whole outlook on life. This new and improved Spitfire made us turn from a defensive mind to an offensive one. We could still outturn the 190s and in some cases outclimb and outrun them as well. Most of the time, though, it was the Germans who were on the run! I went from scared looks to beating and thumping my chest and, in one case, thumbing my nose at the Luftwaffe." (I've seen him tell this story and act it out
)While flying a Spitfire IX Collinsworth claimed Fw 190s destroyed on May 6, 1943 near Tunis, June 11, 1943 over Pantelleria and July 12, 1943 over Sicily ending up with 6 claimed shot down while flying Spitfires. Collinsworth's victim on June 11 was apparently an Fw 190 A-5 of SchG 2. Shores gives Collinsworth credit as follows for his July 12 claim: Stab/SKG 10 Fw 190A-5 WNr 0844 lost in combat S San Pietro a/f; Fw Hermann Heiss KiA.
Lt. Jerry Collinsworth in his Spitfire, Biggin Hill, England, August 1942
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I wonder how many times 31st FG pilots got the reaction "you flew a WHAT?" after returning home.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Hmmmm....
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Now that's a flight test I can understand.
Yep!
sure it wasn't the other way round ?
fubar57
General
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
thats because the P-39 had nose armour fitted. Take that out and it will outperform the Spitfire IX in every possible way
Shortround6
Major General
No..............no..................no....................a thousand times no...................................it was the cockpit heater that ruined it..........................................
fubar57
General
.......IT WAS THE BRITISH
why is it always us that ruin everything
oh and i thought it was the radio that ruined it or was it the IFF ?
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,973
- Mar 26, 2007
A british radio controlled heater ruined it.
pinehilljoe
Senior Airman
- 742
- May 1, 2016
SPITFIRE 944 : Here's a short film about a USAAF pilot who flew photo recon Spitfires.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
That must have been quite a moment for that pilot when he saw the crash footage for the first time.
Mike Williams
Senior Airman
- 572
- Oct 19, 2006
Regarding first use of Spitfire VIIIs and IXs by US units in the MTO, some tweaks to my earlier statements are in order. First claim by a US pilot flying a Spitfire IX in the MTO that I found was by Major Delvin B. Avery of the 308th FS/31st FG of a 109 on April 8, 1943. First claim of a US pilot flying a Spitfire VIII in the MTO appears to be by Captain Carl Payne of the 309th FS/31st FG of a Bf 109 shot down over Pozzallo, Sicily on July 11, 1943. From Cull: "This was possibly Lt Karl-Heinz of 2/JG53 (WkNr18407) who failed to return from a combat south-west of Navo, and was presumed killed."
Colonel Frank Hill related his first claims, while flying a Spitfire IX on April 22, 1943 of 1 Bf 109 shared destroyed and 1 Bf 109 damaged, in Spitfires with 'Stars', Flypast, December 2005:
Hill also wrote: "The 31st Fighter Group flew the Spitfire V and IX during the Tunisian campaign. With the Mark IX we felt we could out-climb, out-dive and out-turn anything the Germans or Italians could put up against us. Whether this was true or not I suppose is debatable, but at least that is what we thought, and we flew the plane for all it was worth with that in mind."
Major Frank Hill with his Spitfire VIII JF.452 at Miazzo, Sicily in early September 1943.
Colonel Frank Hill related his first claims, while flying a Spitfire IX on April 22, 1943 of 1 Bf 109 shared destroyed and 1 Bf 109 damaged, in Spitfires with 'Stars', Flypast, December 2005:
"Flying out of La Sers Aerodrome, about 80 miles south west of Tunis, we were assigned to escort P-40s as they dive bombed any targets of opportunity near the front lines. As we finished the top cover and started back, we noticed a dog-fight off to the east. We immediately headed in that direction and as we expected, some of our Spitfires were tangling with a bunch of Me 109s. From 18,000ft, we dove down into the fight and went after the last one in a string and at 300 yards, I started firing bursts that continued on until I was only 25 yards behind him. By this time, he was trailing large quantities of black smoke, glycol and pieces of the aircraft were coming off. I had to pull up quick to avoid hitting him. My wingman Lt Stormy Rahn trailing behind me moved in and got some good hits also. The enemy fighter went into a steep dive and did not recover. We both shared in the kill.
Minutes later, I started climbing for altitude and called my flight to rejoin over the dry lake near Pon du Fahs. As I was passing through 10,000ft I saw one of the aircraft below wiggling his wings over the location. I immediately wiggled mind back and signaled for him to join up as I banked slightly to the left. I glanced over my left shoulder to make sure he was joining me and saw cannon shells flashing through his propeller spinner. He was firing at me! I yanked my Spit into the hardest vertical turn as I could - it was so violent that the canopy popped out of its retaining rails. I was pulling at least six 'Gs' and almost blacking out. Around and around we went and the circle got smaller and I could see him lagging behind and I'm sure he was pulling as many 'Gs' as I was. I was confident that I could outlast him and seconds later, I saw the Me 109 shudder, about to stall. He rolled it over and headed for the deck going straight down. I followed him down, firing all the way. He leveled out almost at ground level and I stayed on his tail, firing short bursts. Suddenly I saw the tops of buildings zipping by just a few feet below me and then I realized that we were over Tunis and just a few miles from the German air base at El Aiouna. It hit me that he was taking me back to his base, so I pulled up, did a 180 degree turn and got the heck out of there. I was almost out of ammo and alone, so I returned to La Sers as quickly as I could. I claimed a half kill and one damaged for the mission."
Hill also wrote: "The 31st Fighter Group flew the Spitfire V and IX during the Tunisian campaign. With the Mark IX we felt we could out-climb, out-dive and out-turn anything the Germans or Italians could put up against us. Whether this was true or not I suppose is debatable, but at least that is what we thought, and we flew the plane for all it was worth with that in mind."
Major Frank Hill with his Spitfire VIII JF.452 at Miazzo, Sicily in early September 1943.
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Chuck
Airman
That was my point, there was no capacity or ability to make obsolete aircraft.
Gents,
Is there any place to look specifically if I want to find more combat reports by Capt. Carey?
Cheers,
Biff
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