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The Japanese Army never operated "Zekes" - Zeros."In the afternoon, the Japanese sent a formation of Aichi D3A "Val" to attack the US Navy escort carriers. The army Ki-44 "Tojo" squadron escorted navy bombers. However, a patrol of "Saints" 9VC-27), commanded by Ralph Elliott, encountered the enemy formation. In a fierce fight, the Wildcat pilots massacred the Japanese escort, reporting shooting down eight Ki-44s. Ralph Elliott claimed three "Tojo's", two of which were confirmed after his return to the carrier and one probable. The destruction of the fighter squadron forced Aichi "Val" to retreat and drop their bombs into the sea and return to base. The Americans lost only one pilot missing in combat, but the Wildcats were shot up badly, that five of them had to be written off."
I assume that actually this squadron encountered Vals escorted by Zekes, or less likely Oscars/Tojos escorting Sonias? The actual casualties are probably irrelevant but that five Wildcats were s/o indicates the Japanese pilots were not badly trained. Can anyone shed light on the IJN or IAAF units involved?
regards
Keith
VC-27 encountered both IJN and IJA aircraft.My question is were these aircraft encountered by VC-27 Japanese Navy or Army? The question is based on my assumption that Navy aircraft did not escort Army aircraft or vice-versa.
i have read that in fact the radius of action on internal fuel tanks was only 195 miles. The Zero according to Lundstrom was 300 miles from a carrier and 500 miles from a land base.Cheers Rich. The maximum range for the Ki-44 was 750 miles (1000 miles with drop tanks). How far were the Japanese fighters from their nearest base when they encountered VC-27? The distance from Army airfields looks considerable.
best regards
K
I did look at my copy of "Japanese Army Fighter Aces" and looking at the admittedly incomplete casualty listings for JAAF pilots none were flying "Shokis" but the 1st and 52nd Sentais were flying Ki-84 "Hayate" and both lost pilots including the 1st Sentai commander Capt Kasugai Toshiro over Ormoc Bay. Other known pilot losses were incurred by "Oscar" and "Tony" sentais. Incidentally the 1st sentai had been employed escorting army bombers the day before. Perhaps the VC-27 pilots recognised that their opponents were not "Oscars" and instead opted for another known type of fighter.i have read that in fact the radius of action on internal fuel tanks was only 195 miles. The Zero according to Lundstrom was 300 miles from a carrier and 500 miles from a land base.
The 29th Sentai was stationed there from September 1944 onward.More points. No Tojo sentais were operating from the Phillippines at this time. Both the 29th and 246th would arrive but no see action before November. Also only VC-27 (twelve claims) and VC-20 (two claims) of all the CVE squadrons would identify victories over "Tojo" in these two days. Not sure about the Hellcat squadrons but in the end there seems the Tojo/Shoki was absent. However the (as yet unidentified) "Frank" was not.
K
Excellent! Many thanks Barrett.From J-Aircraft.com via the ever helpful Sam Tagaya:
This just a quick look at Hata & Izawa (the expanded Japanese edition published in 2010). As you know well, 24 and 25 October 1944 was the climax of the Battle of Leyte Gulf. There were numerous air combats east of the Philippines during the course of these two days. But the action that best fits that of Lt. Elliot and VC-27 in the afternoon of 25 October would appear to be one involving Zekes and Vals that took off ftom Legaspi at 1500 JST. This was a composite formation of Zeros from more than one unit, but Fighter Hikotai 304 of 203 Kokutai was heavily involved. It fielded 11 Zeros out of 35 total and lost 4. Total Japanese losses were 6 Zeros and 2 Vals. The Japanese claimed 6 F6Fs shot down and 2 probables. No doubt the 5 FM-2s that returned to their carrier, but subsequently written off, were included among the Japanese claims. The Zeros were escorting 23 Vals from 701 Kokutai. As you know, misidentification of e/a was universal during the war. So the Americans reported Tojos. Mis-ID of FM-2s as F6Fs was widespread on the Japanese side during '44 - '45 in the P.I. The Japanese formation reported encountering some 35 F6Fs. So I wonder whether there were other units besides VC-27 involved in this fight?
Trying to login to J-aircraft again. Crossing my fingers.Excellent! Many thanks Barrett.
Keith
Thanks for posting the unit strength, I'm very interested in unit strengths in the Fall of 1944 in the Philippines.There were numerous air reinforcements navy and army rushed to PI during late 44, which makes it hard to pinpoint where they actually based. The whole PI air campaign for the Japanese side is poorly recorded and confusing to follow, as it was a battle of annihilation conducted at high intensity.
The 2nd Naval Air Fleet that arrived in october 1944 was 200x A6M, 100x N1K1-J, 55x G4M, 50x P1Y, 15x D4Y, 20x J1N-S, 10x C6N and a few J2M3............No D3A Val in this lot. The PI plan was that Negros was mostly a JAAF area while JNAF was mostly on Luzon (....mostly...) Negros was mostly Ki43 and Ki84, although I saw Ki-61 mentioned. I doubt Ki44 was on Negros. The Ki43 were greatly used as fighter bombers in leyte 44, as the Ki84 was a superiour fighter.
My guess on your action of 25 oct 44 is it was Ki43 escorting Ki51, or some D3A either by accident or plan.
P.S. From that kill list Leonard posted of over the gulf it is possible Ki84 was misidentified as Ki44 as Ki84 was a new type for US to face.