What airplane could have turned the tide of the war?

[Admiral Beez]

Now me, I'd go for a Fulmar I with the Merlin VIII plus 16 lbs boost and under fuselage bomb in 1942 as the primary dive bomber and kept the Fulmar II for fighter recce and dive bombing. Maybe even a Fulmar III with the Merlin 32 later.

Given it's origins with the Battle, I wonder if Fairey ever considered putting a torpedo on the Fulmar? You'd need to raise the tail wheel. Sort of like the Germans and Italians....

Fiat G.55 - Wikipedia

 

[Kevin J]

Given it's origins with the Battle, I wonder if Fairey ever considered putting a torpedo on the Fulmar? You'd need to raise the tail wheel. Sort of like the Germans and Italians....

View attachment 558851

Fiat G.55 - Wikipedia

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Maybe if it had a Merlin 32.

 

[Barrett]

Sorry for my ignorance, what does overhead gunnery mean in this context?
Is it the one as described here:
"The "overhead" was the most fun -- starting out 500 or more feet directly above the banner, rolling over and diving to a position astern (and a little above) of the banner before firing. "
Korean War Educator: Memoirs - Jack Parchen

As taught by the USN, the overhead was a vertical pass at a lower formation, beginning as much as 3k ft overhead. Half roll to inverted, pull through to the vertical and track the target in a 90 deg aspect. Not much different from a full deflection shot in the horizontal. There was a tendency to get "sucked" astern, giving a bomber rear gunner a shot , but as Marion Carl said, "If you did it right, by that time he was dead."

 

[Macandy]

Imperial destroyers

 

[Washing Machine Charlie]

I've wonder that, before, if an armistice between the West and Germany were made, including a provision ending lend/lease and other aid, would the Soviets pull out a win. Given enough foresight, would the West have wanted them to or perhaps lend/lease acquires a new customer....

Good point. And if the US and Britain are sueing for peace due to political pressure and it becomes basically a battle between the USSR and Germany do the Soviets still win? Probably, but I don't think it's guaranteed. So basically what I'm saying is not that the fielding of the 262 and other jets in large numbers earlier would have turned the tide but that there exists a posibiity it might have where there was zero posibiity of that after, in my estamation 42, or maybe even earlier, without them.

 

[Marcel]

Turn the tide of war? If I interpret it as 'changed the timeline of the war' then I would suggest good and capable aircraft in abundance for the neutrals In 1939/1940. If Poland, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands would have beaten there sh!t out of the Luftwaffe, the BOB would never have happened, maybe not even the battle of France.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Turn the tide of war? If I interpret it as 'changed the timeline of the war' then I would suggest good and capable aircraft in abundance for the neutrals In 1939/1940. If Poland, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands would have beaten there sh!t out of the Luftwaffe, the BOB would never have happened, maybe not even the battle of France.

The Poles have more than the Luftwaffe to deal with, with the Russians invading shortly thereafter. Had some BEF and RAF units been positioned in Poland to deter Germans they'd be in a pickle facing the Soviets.

 

[michael rauls]

The Poles have more than the Luftwaffe to deal with, with the Russians invading shortly thereafter. Had some BEF and RAF units been positioned in Poland to deter Germans they'd be in a pickle facing the Soviets.

You gotta feel for the Poles. For many years seems like Polands main function was to serve as a highway for various oposing armys to drive across in route to get at someone else, taking Poland in the process of course.

 

[wingnuts]

You gotta feel for the Poles. For many years seems like Polands main function was to serve as a highway for various oposing armys to drive across in route to get at someone else, taking Poland in the process of course.

Poland also took a portion of Czechoslovakia when the Germans annexed the country so they were not an entirely innocent party.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Poland benefited from the First World War by regaining its existence. The Second, not so much. Other than to build upon national identity for the regaining of independence in the 1980s.

Looking at aircraft and military in general, including their excellent submarines, we have to give credit to Poland for punching above its weight. This still relatively recent independent nation designed and built some impressive interwar aircraft. I'm not sure having more of them would have turned the tide of the war, but perhaps a more power Polish Air Force might have bought a few month's deterrence of Germany, to some benefit to the Wallies. A dive bomber variant of the PZL.46 Sum may have been useful.

The PZL.37 Łoś looks as modern as anything in Europe.

I imagine had they had more time the Poles would have next fielded a competitive home grown low wing monoplane fighter to replace their parasol fighters, including my favourite Polish fighter proposal, the PZL.50 Jastrząb. It's likely not competitive to the Bf-109, but Stukas and LW level bombers should be worried.

 

[pbehn]

Poland benefited from the First World War by regaining its existence. The Second, not so much.

I just benefitted from the ignore function.

 

[Marcel]

I just benefitted from the ignore function.

Can you please stop targeting a person? If you have a fight together, please do it on Facebook or the like.

 

[swampyankee]

You gotta feel for the Poles. For many years seems like Polands main function was to serve as a highway for various oposing armys to drive across in route to get at someone else, taking Poland in the process of course.

Russia (and its successor, the USSR) and Prussia (and its successor, Germany) had long shared the goal of the destruction of Poland.

 

[Dimlee]

I've wonder that, before, if an armistice between the West and Germany were made, including a provision ending lend/lease and other aid, would the Soviets pull out a win. Given enough foresight, would the West have wanted them to or perhaps lend/lease acquires a new customer....

In my opinion, USSR will not pull it out alone. No more war in the Atlantic, no more bombings, peace in the Mediterranean, etc. And Germany can focus all resources on one front only, while USSR is devoid of supply of aluminum, copper, gasoline, trucks, radios, high explosives, rail engines and wagons, foodstuff...

 

[swampyankee]

I've wonder that, before, if an armistice between the West and Germany were made, including a provision ending lend/lease and other aid, would the Soviets pull out a win. Given enough foresight, would the West have wanted them to or perhaps lend/lease acquires a new customer....

Had this been done, there would be no Israel and no Jews or Roma in Europe and far fewer Slavs.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I've wonder that, before, if an armistice between the West and Germany were made, including a provision ending lend/lease and other aid, would the Soviets pull out a win. Given enough foresight, would the West have wanted them to or perhaps lend/lease acquires a new customer....

24 weeks after embarking on their hopeless invasion of Russia, Germany declares war on the USA. From that moment the Germans were doomed.

No one in the West would be advocating for an armistice, well, except the Italians who are now kicking themselves for supporting Mussolini. By autumn/winter 1942, with the Japanese fleet and army advances shattered, the Italian-Germans defeated at El Alamein in North Africa, and the Germans ground to a halt outside Stalingrad, Leningrad and Moscow, and seeing the growing might of the US on on fronts, there will be no armistice.

 

[pinehilljoe]

I've wonder that, before, if an armistice between the West and Germany were made, including a provision ending lend/lease and other aid, would the Soviets pull out a win. Given enough foresight, would the West have wanted them to or perhaps lend/lease acquires a new customer....

No the Soviets could not have continued and defeated Nazi Germany without Lend Lease. Look at the numbers of tanks and aircraft alone that were sent to the Soviets, let alone trucks and raw material. Lend Lease delivery in tanks represents 20% of the Soviet Order of Battle.

 

[ClayO]

Poland did make significant contributions to the war effort: fighter pilots to England for the BoB, and providing their Enigma-decoding bombe to the folks at Bletchley Park.

 

[nuuumannn]

A torpedo bomber Fulmar might have been possible - might, as it was based on the Fairey P.4/34, which was built to spec P.4/34 for a light day bomber, to which the Hawker Henley was built, but that leaves the FAA without a viable fighter. There weren't that many Fulmars at any given time and those that there were were very busy dog fighting with aircraft that were their superior in the Mediterranean and were not doing as badly as one might suspect. One problem in carrying a torpedo is the Fulmar's nasal features; that big messy radiator/oil cooler arrangement might make carrying and releasing torpedoes difficult.

Fulmar nose

Get it into service before its historical Jan 1943 (three years from first 1940 Flight is ridiculous).

Yup Admiral, you're right, it was ridiculous that it took so long to get into service - airframe wise it was a dog's breakfast and it was sorting out aerodynamic issues that meant it spent far too long in development - this wasn't the FAA's fault. Marcel Lobelle (Fairey designer) chose a clean sheet design rather than an adaptation of an existing platform as he did with the Fulmar, but the Barra was flawed because arguably too much was being asked of the one airframe and it was designed around the observer's room below the wing, which meant it was a shoulder wing design, which, with its big Fairey-Youngman flaps, disrupted airflow round the hori stab. One thing led to another and another...

On the Albacore as a dive bomber, they were used as such during the build up to Operation Torch in attacking Vichy French airfields, with moderate success, but losses were suffered.

 

[Admiral Beez]

On the Albacore as a dive bomber, they were used as such during the build up to Operation Torch in attacking Vichy French airfields, with moderate success, but losses were suffered.

Fairey should have just made the Albacore a monoplane, closed hood Swordfish, same as the Hurricane is essentially a monoplane Fury or Nimrod.