Admiral Beez
Major
Given it's origins with the Battle, I wonder if Fairey ever considered putting a torpedo on the Fulmar? You'd need to raise the tail wheel. Sort of like the Germans and Italians....
Fiat G.55 - Wikipedia
What airplane could have turned the tide of the war?
- Thread starter ClayO
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Kevin J
Banned
Maybe if it had a Merlin 32.
Barrett
Senior Airman
As taught by the USN, the overhead was a vertical pass at a lower formation, beginning as much as 3k ft overhead. Half roll to inverted, pull through to the vertical and track the target in a 90 deg aspect. Not much different from a full deflection shot in the horizontal. There was a tendency to get "sucked" astern, giving a bomber rear gunner a shot , but as Marion Carl said, "If you did it right, by that time he was dead."
Washing Machine Charlie
Airman
- 34
- Aug 1, 2018
I've wonder that, before, if an armistice between the West and Germany were made, including a provision ending lend/lease and other aid, would the Soviets pull out a win. Given enough foresight, would the West have wanted them to or perhaps lend/lease acquires a new customer....
Turn the tide of war? If I interpret it as 'changed the timeline of the war' then I would suggest good and capable aircraft in abundance for the neutrals In 1939/1940. If Poland, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands would have beaten there sh!t out of the Luftwaffe, the BOB would never have happened, maybe not even the battle of France.
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Admiral Beez
Major
The Poles have more than the Luftwaffe to deal with, with the Russians invading shortly thereafter. Had some BEF and RAF units been positioned in Poland to deter Germans they'd be in a pickle facing the Soviets.
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
You gotta feel for the Poles. For many years seems like Polands main function was to serve as a highway for various oposing armys to drive across in route to get at someone else, taking Poland in the process of course.
wingnuts
Airman 1st Class
Poland also took a portion of Czechoslovakia when the Germans annexed the country so they were not an entirely innocent party.
Admiral Beez
Major
Poland benefited from the First World War by regaining its existence. The Second, not so much. Other than to build upon national identity for the regaining of independence in the 1980s.
Looking at aircraft and military in general, including their excellent submarines, we have to give credit to Poland for punching above its weight. This still relatively recent independent nation designed and built some impressive interwar aircraft. I'm not sure having more of them would have turned the tide of the war, but perhaps a more power Polish Air Force might have bought a few month's deterrence of Germany, to some benefit to the Wallies. A dive bomber variant of the PZL.46 Sum may have been useful.
The PZL.37 Łoś looks as modern as anything in Europe.
I imagine had they had more time the Poles would have next fielded a competitive home grown low wing monoplane fighter to replace their parasol fighters, including my favourite Polish fighter proposal, the PZL.50 Jastrząb. It's likely not competitive to the Bf-109, but Stukas and LW level bombers should be worried.
Looking at aircraft and military in general, including their excellent submarines, we have to give credit to Poland for punching above its weight. This still relatively recent independent nation designed and built some impressive interwar aircraft. I'm not sure having more of them would have turned the tide of the war, but perhaps a more power Polish Air Force might have bought a few month's deterrence of Germany, to some benefit to the Wallies. A dive bomber variant of the PZL.46 Sum may have been useful.
The PZL.37 Łoś looks as modern as anything in Europe.
I imagine had they had more time the Poles would have next fielded a competitive home grown low wing monoplane fighter to replace their parasol fighters, including my favourite Polish fighter proposal, the PZL.50 Jastrząb. It's likely not competitive to the Bf-109, but Stukas and LW level bombers should be worried.
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I just benefitted from the ignore function.
Can you please stop targeting a person? If you have a fight together, please do it on Facebook or the like.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,031
- Jun 25, 2013
Russia (and its successor, the USSR) and Prussia (and its successor, Germany) had long shared the goal of the destruction of Poland.
In my opinion, USSR will not pull it out alone. No more war in the Atlantic, no more bombings, peace in the Mediterranean, etc. And Germany can focus all resources on one front only, while USSR is devoid of supply of aluminum, copper, gasoline, trucks, radios, high explosives, rail engines and wagons, foodstuff...
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,031
- Jun 25, 2013
Had this been done, there would be no Israel and no Jews or Roma in Europe and far fewer Slavs.
Admiral Beez
Major
24 weeks after embarking on their hopeless invasion of Russia, Germany declares war on the USA. From that moment the Germans were doomed.
No one in the West would be advocating for an armistice, well, except the Italians who are now kicking themselves for supporting Mussolini. By autumn/winter 1942, with the Japanese fleet and army advances shattered, the Italian-Germans defeated at El Alamein in North Africa, and the Germans ground to a halt outside Stalingrad, Leningrad and Moscow, and seeing the growing might of the US on on fronts, there will be no armistice.
pinehilljoe
Staff Sergeant
- 752
- May 1, 2016
No the Soviets could not have continued and defeated Nazi Germany without Lend Lease. Look at the numbers of tanks and aircraft alone that were sent to the Soviets, let alone trucks and raw material. Lend Lease delivery in tanks represents 20% of the Soviet Order of Battle.
- Thread starter
- #98
A torpedo bomber Fulmar might have been possible - might, as it was based on the Fairey P.4/34, which was built to spec P.4/34 for a light day bomber, to which the Hawker Henley was built, but that leaves the FAA without a viable fighter. There weren't that many Fulmars at any given time and those that there were were very busy dog fighting with aircraft that were their superior in the Mediterranean and were not doing as badly as one might suspect. One problem in carrying a torpedo is the Fulmar's nasal features; that big messy radiator/oil cooler arrangement might make carrying and releasing torpedoes difficult.
Fulmar nose
Yup Admiral, you're right, it was ridiculous that it took so long to get into service - airframe wise it was a dog's breakfast and it was sorting out aerodynamic issues that meant it spent far too long in development - this wasn't the FAA's fault. Marcel Lobelle (Fairey designer) chose a clean sheet design rather than an adaptation of an existing platform as he did with the Fulmar, but the Barra was flawed because arguably too much was being asked of the one airframe and it was designed around the observer's room below the wing, which meant it was a shoulder wing design, which, with its big Fairey-Youngman flaps, disrupted airflow round the hori stab. One thing led to another and another...
On the Albacore as a dive bomber, they were used as such during the build up to Operation Torch in attacking Vichy French airfields, with moderate success, but losses were suffered.
Yup Admiral, you're right, it was ridiculous that it took so long to get into service - airframe wise it was a dog's breakfast and it was sorting out aerodynamic issues that meant it spent far too long in development - this wasn't the FAA's fault. Marcel Lobelle (Fairey designer) chose a clean sheet design rather than an adaptation of an existing platform as he did with the Fulmar, but the Barra was flawed because arguably too much was being asked of the one airframe and it was designed around the observer's room below the wing, which meant it was a shoulder wing design, which, with its big Fairey-Youngman flaps, disrupted airflow round the hori stab. One thing led to another and another...
On the Albacore as a dive bomber, they were used as such during the build up to Operation Torch in attacking Vichy French airfields, with moderate success, but losses were suffered.
Admiral Beez
Major
Fairey should have just made the Albacore a monoplane, closed hood Swordfish, same as the Hurricane is essentially a monoplane Fury or Nimrod.
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